- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Hi all,
I'm looking for documentation for the Raw binary file format and Tabular Text file format. Is this freely available, or will I have to talk to Altera directly?Link Copied
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
RBF is just a simple binary format, that You can upload using simple serialization mechanism (e.g. SPI: SCK->DCLK, MOSI->DATA0). Except You need to do a byte-reverse before sending.
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
I suppose I want to ask if there's an order to the bytes. What do the bytes refer to?
Which switch blocks do they refer to? background information: I'm interested in SEU effects on the configuration bits of the FPGA and verifying possible changes. I understand that there is a level of encryption applied to the raw binary format, but I am lead to assume that this is done during the download process. Based on this fact, the rbf is not encrypted. Is any of this correct?- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
The meaning of the configuration bitstream is undocumented. Besides a simple optional compression and a CRC consistency check, the configuration data can be expected as an image of various configuration bits distributed over the FPGA chip. Encryption is pointless without a key, you can review the configuration mechanism of Cyclone III LS familiy that provides AES encrypted configuration.
Although configuration data is quite complex, scientific studies have shown, that it's basically possible to reveal gate level logic information from it. I think, the topic has been discussed at Altera forum before.- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Is the bitstream interally documented? (i.e. would require an agreement between my university and Altera)
I am writing a masters' thesis on SEU mitigation for safety-critical FPGA applications in regards to interconnect switches. The current CRC calculation rates are far too slow for our purposes. --- Quote Start --- Although configuration data is quite complex, scientific studies have shown, that it's basically possible to reveal gate level logic information from it. I think, the topic has been discussed at Altera forum before. --- Quote End --- Is there a link to this discussion? my searches yield back nothing. I am aware that it is possible to reverse-engineer netlist information from the bitstream, but this is not my purpose.- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Thanks for trying to help.
I read this paper 1 year ago, and I was hoping for different news. Since this is a safety-critical (Nuclear power) application, we need to be able to verify that the bitstream and the netlist show the exact circuit layout. This is in addition to providing soft SEU mitigation techniques. All of this is to prove that there is no single point of failure in the FPGA tool.- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
In addition there have been a discussion at ulogic.com about how to apply the method discussed in the paper to Altera FPGAs. I guess you know it too.
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
I am unable to find this discussion on ulogic.com as it links to a real estate website, but thanks for trying to help.
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Just to conclude this discussion, I've decided to use the Versatile Place and Route tool (VPR) made by Vaughn Betz from U of Toronto. This meets my need without resorting to the altera bitstream format.
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Hello
I am working with my mater thesis. I was wondering if you found a way to compile a project for an Altera FPGA with VTR and migrate to Quartus so you can can make the sof file. Thank you Dimitrios Agiakatsikas- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Hi Dimitrios.
I have since given up on VTR and Altera products altogether for my thesis. I have now switched to Xilinx. As to your question, have you come across the net2vqm tool? It doesn't convert the VTR output to sof right away, but it re-introduces Quartus back into the CAD flow.- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Hello
Thank you for your quick response. Did you reached to compile a project with vpr and then go back to Quartus to generate the bitstream. I have spent lot of time searching about the structure of the sof file and now I am trying to synthesise with Odin II, optimise with ABC and place & route with VPR. The above tools are embedded in a CAD flow called VTR. Best Regards Dimitrios Agiakatsikas- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
I never attempted to run the entire CAD flow from HDL design to bitstream.
When I experimented with the tool, I concluded that it did not serve my purpose and so I stopped using it. VPR generates 3 files: .place for placement .route for routing .net for the final netlist after the P&R algorithm runs. There's a tool created by the EECG group at the University of Toronto which converts .net files to .vqm This tool is the nettovqm tool. (net-to-vqm)- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Thanks, Socrates. Since SPI is usually msb first (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/serial_peripheral_interface_bus#data_transmission), does that mean the RBF file contents should go out LSB first?
--- Quote Start --- RBF is just a simple binary format, that You can upload using simple serialization mechanism (e.g. SPI: SCK->DCLK, MOSI->DATA0). Except You need to do a byte-reverse before sending. --- Quote End ---- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Found the answer (http://quartushelp.altera.com/current/mergedprojects/reference/glossary/def_rbf.htm). It is LSB first.
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Mark Topic as New
- Mark Topic as Read
- Float this Topic for Current User
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Printer Friendly Page