Help with no video problem.

[lee_leses]

At work we use a type of all-in-one computer called the Client Pro 424. We use these systems as part of a complex network driven infant alarm system. We have had seven of these 424's in use here for about 1.5 years, one as a server and the others as clients. In that time period, we have had two of these 424's fail where the XP Splash screen will come on, but then after that there is no video. We checked everything conceivable that we could think of, including swapping out with known good units the power supplies and hard drives. We also tried an external monitor. Nothing works. Our theory is that on startup the video resolution that displays the XP splash screen is okay, but when the machine goes to switch to the resolution it normally runs at that portion of the video is burned out or something. The company that sold us the infant alarm system is terrible. These 424's are made by a company called MPC, who just went chapter 11 in November 11/2008 shortly after aquiring Gateway, Inc.. We accessed the build sheet for the 424's on MPC's website, and the build sheet says the machine has a five-year warrantee, but the infant alarm company says no warrantee, pay us $3000 for a new machine! Long story about contracts and how you should negotiate service calls better before buying a system - we won't go there right now.

So the same build sheet says that the 424's that have failed have something called an "Intel Integrated Graphics TV-Out Daughter Card", and gives a part number for it on MPC's website of "VCD002165-00". So I took one of the 424's completely apart and found this card in there with a sticker on it that says this part number above, VCD002165-00. It plugs into a PCI Express x16 connector. Nowhere on this little card does it say "Intel" anywhere, but I identified if from this sticker with the part number. It says LVDS all over this card, I understand that is used sometimes with video? Also, this card has it's own fan as video cards often do, but a strange cooling setup, the card does not actually touch the heatsink that is mounted above it. It's a bad design, the air paths to this card were totally blocked up with massive amounts of dust, and you have to take the whole thing apart for 30-45 minutes to even think about being able to get to the air paths.

So, can anyone offer any help as far as if it would be likely that this card was too hot and is the cause of the no video in these two machines? Additionally, can anyone suggest where to start if the card was bad with identifying the card and finding a replacement for it? There is a part number on it, it says P/N and a part number, but when I googled the part number nothing useful came up. From looking at the drivers for the Intel video card for the 424, it appears it may use the 945G chipset, but again I'm not sure. So far I can't get anyone from MPC to call me back, and the infant alarm company is useless, so any help would really be appreciated...

Lee B.

[Aaron_B_Intel]

Don't know how much I can help you, but I'll try.

The LVDS card sounds like an ADD2 card. This plugs into the PCIe slot andcommunicates with the Intel graphics chip using what's called SDVO protocols and provides extra graphics interfaces like DVI, HDMI, LVDS, component video, etc. While I can't say definitively that Intel has never built one of these, typically they are built by a third party using something like Chrontel's 7308.

At any rate, it sounds like something may in fact the wrong with one of these cards; I can't tell from your troubleshooting discussion: have all of the units failed, or is it a subset? If a subset, are you able to swap the cards and the "goodness" follows?

Is it possible there was a graphicsdriver software upgrade which broke the support for this card? This calls into question why it's happening on some but not others, of course. In this case, since the splash screen comes on but the video is otherwise not coming up, it sounds like the "unworking" ones are getting into some sort of resolution/refresh rate mode that either the monitor does not support or the LVDS card no longer supports (possibly for the thermal reasons you state).

If the units are networked, I recommend installing VNC on one of the ones that works, verifying you can remotely log in, and then swapping its hard drive with an unworking one. At this point, you should be able to remotely log into the "bad" one and see what its settings are-- which resolution is failing, or if there are any errors showing up giving a clue what is happening.

Come back with a report and I'll try to help further.

[lee_leses]

Hey, I really appreciate you trying to help! First of all, you obviously know your stuff. There are two Chrontel chips on this board. I didn't bring my reading glasses so I can't read the exact numbers on them. LOL Here are numbers that I think identify the board.

L19DX1 LVDS BD VER. B
P/N: 35GPL1900-B0
Made in China

It does not say Intel anywhere on the board, but as I said the sticker on it indicates via the MPC company website that it is an Intel Daughter card.

Next, I went and looked at one of the working machines. The display problems the girl that works with me saw is normal screen "burn in" because the screens are on 24/7. The display properties shows some "tweaking" in XP, the "Themes" tab is missing completely, and the only desktop wallpaper available is the infant alarm company desktop wallpaper. On the "settings" tab it says "Digital Flat Panel 1280 x 1024 on Intel 82945G Express Chipset Family" and it's set to 32 Bit. I looked more at the driver in Device Manager, and on the first box it says it's an Intel Driver, but if you click the button that says "driver" it says "Symantec" made the driver. It indicates that the driver was vintage 2005.

Here's some more thoughts. I forgot to mention we also tried starting in Safe Mode, and that was a no go too. The way this thing runs, it's not impossible for someone to change the display settings, but they would have to go to control-alt-delete to end the program running on the screen to get to display properties or go through control panel after hitting the windows key to get to the start menu.

Help me out, forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure what VNC is. I think you have a good concept there as far as swapping the hard drive and seeing what settings are active, that's a great idea. Not sure what you mean as far as why I would have to log onto the network to do that. I have to be very careful as far as what I do, I can't do anything on the network that would risk crashing the whole thing, this thing is fairly involved, many ports, digiservers etc., and the seven computers are on five different floors in different buildings. Had we been asked, we would have questioned using a system that is one big whole and can leave you with five floors at the same time with no infant alarm. Just to spell it out, the thing works with RF and bands on the child's arm or leg that make sure the child is not removed from the floor or alarms if a band is cut to remove the sensor from the child. The computers show where on a floor mpa the child was taken if someone tries to go out a protected door.

Another thing I need to do is try an external monitor on a known working machine to see how the external monitor is enabled in the software and confirm that it works under normal conditions.

Do you thing the card described above would be where in the machine that the video is driven from, and do you know where I could get a new card if that's the case to try putting this machine back together to see if it works? I can't take apart any of the working machines, they are needed in service at all times.

I'm also wondering what would happen if I copied all the data on the C partition from the hard drive of one of the broken machines and put it on a new hard drive then put that new hard drive in a regular tower. I know this is hit and miss, but I wondered if XP would be able to swap drivers automatically and possibly have the tower work as per normal on the network. I'm also not sure I can do that without having a problem with licensing issues. We would still only be running one copy of the software, just on a new machine? There also could be issues if a baby was taken where the company could say it's not their computer on the network so not their problem! Not so much of an issue there if their machine could be fixed.

[lee_leses]

I just came from the floor looking at the second machine that has failed video. We left it in service because it'sa little complicated to remove a client from the network in the software. It's running but no video, so we put it on a floor that's an overflow floor if there's too many babies, and that floor usually doesn't have babies too often but still has to be alarmed.

Anyway, this machine is doing the same thing, but it's actually worse than the first one (the one that's in pieces right now) was. The XP splash screen only comes on for 1 second, then goes right off. And, the text that is normal during booting before XP even starts somes on for 1 second and goes right off. It's like the video keeps trying to start and immediately goes off multiple times. Also, it's not a setting issue now that I think about it, because we tried the hard drive from the first failed unit in a known good machine and the video comes right on fine.

I read on external monitors for the ClientPro 424. It says you have to enable the external monitor in display properties. I'm trying to picture if I do that on a working machine and then put the hard drive back in the bad machine will that cause the drivers for the external monitor to load automatically? I have to try this again because I can't remember what we got the last time with the external monitor. I would think you should see the boot text for sure because thats before XP even starts. Unless there's a bad video card so even the boot text can't be seen.

Also, I re-read this sentence you wrote: "The LVDS card sounds like an ADD2 card. This plugs into the PCIe slot and communicates with the Intel graphics chip using what's called SDVO protocols and provides extra graphics interfaces like DVI, HDMI, LVDS, component video, etc." So does this mean that the main Intel video is in fact integrated onto the motherboard somewhere and the LVDS card does extra functions, or could the LVDS card be the entire problem? Would the Intel chips be cooled by a fan or have a big heatsink on them? Sorry I don't fully understand yet...

Sorry to get complicated! Any thoughts appreciated.

Lee B.

[Aaron_B_Intel]

Again, typically the ADD2 cards (the LVDS card in your case) are not manufactured by Intel but instead by a third party supplier who works to Intel's published specs. I can't seem to find out who the actual manufacturer is based on that part number.

If you're seeing graphics failures during POST, it's clearly not a driver issue. Sounds much more like hardware-- possibly a heat issue, but in general a component might be going bad electrically. I doubt it's the 945 chipset itself (which should be, as you pointed out, soldered to the motherboard), but it could be one or more components on the daughter card. If that's the case, swapping out the daughter card from a working unit into an unworking units should make the unworking unit perform correctly. If you swap in a known working daughter card and the graphics are still not working, then you're looking at some component on the motherboard

If you do isolate the problem to the daughter card, there do appear to be some suppliers for it... I saw a couple online, though I did not see prices or even a description. It's sure to be less than the $3000 your supplier wants fora newunit, though.

A quick web search gives:
82GL19000-B0 MAIN BD ASSY L19DX1 REV.B at some German site (http://www.gnla.de/preisliste/uniwillparts_1.html )
PCB S/W BD 17" FOR L19DX1 REV:D BD17FORL19DX1 PCB S/W BD 17" FOR L19DX1 REV:D at what appears to be a Chinese site ( http://hkindex.job161.com/2532_E.asp )
And supposedly the L19DX1 is also found at the US company Partminer ( http://www.partminer.com/pagedetail/5422/8 ).

Further debug (to figure out which component is going bad on either the motherboard or the daughter card) could be done with something like Chemtronics Freeze Spray, which will cool off individual components and let you know if one of them is overheating.

That's all I have for now. Hope this is helping you.

AB

[lee_leses]

Hi Aaron:

Thank you for getting back to me with more good thoughts. If you could tell me what search terms you used to find the daughter card online that might be helpful.

In the meantime, there's been a breakthrough. I figured out that the problem is the LCD backlight failed! There's still video, you just can't see it because thebacklight or inverter has failed. I'm embarrassed that I didn't pick right up on that, but I was thinking something more complicated than that. These screens are just worn out from running 24/7 for 1.5 years. They never should have picked an all-in-one unit like these to use with this system, but then I think they did it on purpose to make it impossible for anyone but them to service.

Thank you for the interest!

Lee

[Aaron_B_Intel]

Used Yahoo, search term: L19DX1

Glad you seem to have found the issue, though.

[lee_leses]

Thanks for all the input Aaron, Intel is lucky to have you! That search term may end up helping me too...

Lee