Which chipsets support VT-d? - Page 2

cholsen · ‎01-03-2008

Hi!

I would like to set up a Linux machine, being able to run Windows via Xen in parallel to play some games. According to http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenFaq 7.3 the usage of 3D graphics in DomU is not possible. But point 3 of section 7.3 says that IOMMU would enable this feature. Since VT-d is Intel's equivalent to IOMMU, I would like to buy a mainboard supporting this technology.

Now it is hard to point out which chipsets support VT-d. The appropriate VT-d doc of Xen ( http://lxr.xensource.com/lxr/source/docs/misc/vtd.txt ) only references some sample mainboards and machines, these only seem to be such with Q35 chipset / vPro.
A vmware presentation ( http://communities.vmware.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/702997-1574/NE-VMUG%20-%20Intel%20Pres%20-%20071907%20-%20p%20King%20-%20revised.pdf Slide 15) says, that Seaburg and Bearlake chipsets would support VT-d - but Bearlake would not only include Q35, but also P35, X38, ...

So please could someone lighten up this a bit?

Steven_T_Intel · ‎06-17-2008

Here is the list of production platforms that has VT-d on it.

Stoakley (Seaburg) chipset based platforms that has VT-d1 on it:

HP XW8600:

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF25a/12454-12454-296719-307907-296721-3432827.html

Dell T5400

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/precn_t5400?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~tab=bundlestab

SuperMicro based on 5400:

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon1333/5400/X7DWN+.cfm

Weybridge platforms:

For Weybridge, VT-d is productized by Intel only on vPro branded client platforms. Below is a list of such platforms, supporting VT-d, offered by HP, Dell, Acer, Intel board, Lenovo etc. I dont believe SuperMicro carries vPro branded boxes, so we dont know if the SuperMicro BIOS enables VT-d properly on their Weybridge offerings.

* HP Compaq DC7800 series of desktop computers

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/en/WF04a/12454-12454-64287-321860-3328898.html

* Dell Optiplex 755 desktop computers

http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/optix?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz

* ACER vPro system Veriton T661/M661/S661

http://global.acer.com/products/desktop/index.htm

* Intel board with Intel Q35 chipset (supporting Intel VT-d)

http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboard/index.htm?iid=desk_nav+board

* Lenovo ThinkCentre M57p series desktop computers

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:category.details?current-catalog-id=12F0696583E04D86B9B79B0FEC01C087&current-category-id=61CEC07394744CFCA553147261AEA6F7ThinkCentre

switch6343 · ‎06-19-2008

Stev, you are referring to VT-d1 in your below posting. What is the difference between VT-d and VT-d1?

MADsathomse:
.......Stoakley (Seaburg) chipset based platforms that has VT-d1 on it......

Steven_T_Intel · ‎06-19-2008

sorry, typo..... Should have been VT-d

switch6343 · ‎06-20-2008

But did you know, that VT-d2 exists? Stands for "Interrupt remapping". See link (page 5 of the pdf file):
http://www.xen.org/files/xensummit_4/VT_roadmap_d_Nakajima.pdf

MADsathomse:
sorry, typo..... Should have been VT-d

switch6343 · ‎06-23-2008

Of the HP ProLiant range, the only current model which IMHO supports VT-d with Intel's 5400 chipset is the ProLiant DL-160 G5. See this link: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/de/de/sm/WF06a/135-141-374573-374573-12083591-81519681.html

sanjanaa · ‎07-02-2008

So this is my understanding from days of reading through intel and OEM's websites and almost losing vision from reading too much marketing literature.

Chipset 5400 is targetted at workstations and supports vt-d(1?).

Chipset 3200 and 3210 that are targetted for servers (supposedly) support Intel-VT. Now it doesn't say if VT in this case means vt-d or vt-x (which is without the dma re-mapping). Could someone confirm this? I know this has been mentioned in the list before, but Intel's website indicates that 3210 and 3200 support Intel VT. If the answer is no, then am I correct in assuming that there are currently _no_ server machines from OEMs that have production vt-d platforms?

Thanks,
--sanjana

switch6343 · ‎07-02-2008

IMHO the 5400 chipset is targeted for the (physical)server and workstation market with Xeon processors e.g.
http://www.intel.com/design/servers/boards/S5400SF/index.htm (supports VT-d)
Watch out: this board (http://www.intel.com/design/servers/platforms/SC5400RA/index.htm) does NOT have the 5400 chipset but the 5000p chipset. The 5000p chipset does NOT support VT-d. The 5000p is the predecessor of the 5400 chipset.

However the Intel 5400 chipset is also used on just one board in the Intel desktop extreme series boards (gamers) e.g. http://www.intel.com/products/motherboard/D5400XS/index.htm. This is a destop board with server components aka Skulltrail.

There is no Intel workstation board (yet) which has the Intel 5400 chipset onboard. However, some other board manufacturers for OEM other than Intel, may already offer for sale workstations or workstation boards with the Intel 5400 chipset. Not sure about that.

I think the combination of Intel chipset with Xeon processor makes it a server- and/or workstation-system. Combinations of Intel chipset with Core Processors (dual core, quad core) are desktop systems. The exception of the rule is the aformentioned D5400XS board (Skulltrail).

Coming back on VT-x. All chipsets and processors launched on the market during the past two years or so support Intel VT-x. However only the latest Intel chipsets and Intel processors add VT-d support (so, virtually all new chipsets and new processors since about march 2008 onwards). Following chipsets support VT-d: Q35, X38, 3200/3220 (1-Socket server) and 5400 (2-Socket server).

Watch out: I stated VT-d support. You have to check with your supplier of your system with OEM board with Intel chipset and Intel processor if VT-d also can be or is enabled in the BIOS! Very tricky indeed.

Craig_W_Intel · ‎07-03-2008

A bit on naming conventions used by Intel.

VT by itself generally refers to a processor technology, more specifically, VT-x for x86 and VT-i for Itanium.

VT-d (Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O) is a chipset technology.

switch6343 · ‎07-05-2008

I agree, however if VT-x is not supported by the chipset, it won't work. I know there are/were Intel processors out there with VT-x support, but the chipsets didn't support it.

Equally, if the chipset supports VT-d, the processor also should support it.

It's my understanding that with VT-c, the processor does not require to support it. It should be supported by the chipset and the PCI-e and/or Intel NIC.

It's very intransparent all these technologies. No clear documentation out there. Even within Intel,Citrix and HP it's not all clear. Not to talk about the vendors. They're completely in the dark and bitterly complaining.

deshantm · ‎07-05-2008

Hi,

This is a nice list, but I was wondering about Dell rack servers that support VT-d. Do you know which ones do?

I am looking to run Xen on them.

Thanks,
Todd

switch6343 · ‎07-06-2008

You've got to ask Dell. But get confirmation in writing.

Example: even HP vendors don't know which ProLiant servers have the 5400 chipset. Currently only the documentation of, I think, the DL-160 shows it has the 5400 chipset. All other ProLiant servers still state they have the 5000p chipset, although one of the major distributors here say that ALL ProLiant servers have the 5400 chipset.

No one really knows. Go figure.

switch6343 · ‎08-11-2008

Expect HP to come up with a NEW Generation 6 line of HP ProLiant servers, with support of Intel's VT-d technology in its chipsets (chipset 5400 as successor of 5000P?) and twice as much RAM as the previous Generation 5.

Expected to be launched between September 2008 and January 2009.

spambox · ‎10-13-2008

Quoting - switch6343

You've got to ask Dell. But get confirmation in writing.

Example: even HP vendors don't know which ProLiant servers have the 5400 chipset. Currently only the documentation of, I think, the DL-160 shows it has the 5400 chipset. All other ProLiant servers still state they have the 5000p chipset, although one of the major distributors here say that ALL ProLiant servers have the 5400 chipset.

No one really knows. Go figure.

I have ProLiant DL160 G5 box lying on top of my desk.

I definitely have to say, YES, it has 5400 chipset.

BUT It have no BIOS option to enable/disable VT-d feature, only it allows enabling virtualization with VT-x.

So, XEN does not see any DMAR devices on it.

So with Linux x86_64 bit kernel (where DMA Remapping is compiled in) - it does not see any DMA Remapping devices.

And yes, I have upgraded my BIOS from latest images from HP.

I suppose, there will be NO DMARemapping in DL160 G5, see HP site, just search for virtualization,

you will get the fuss about Xen/vmware/etc working with iLO and about "Logical Servers" to be created through iLO interface.

They will never enable you to use Xen with DMAR without all that "features" they are going to sell you.

The only hope is OpenSource BIOS for that server...

However, that's just IMHO.

spambox · ‎10-13-2008

Quoting - spambox

Quoting - switch6343

You've got to ask Dell. But get confirmation in writing.

...

I have ProLiant DL160 G5 box lying on top of my desk.

I definitely have to say, YES, it has 5400 chipset.

BUT It have no BIOS option to enable/disable VT-d feature, only it allows enabling virtualization with VT-x.

So, XEN does not see any DMAR devices on it.

So with Linux x86_64 bit kernel (where DMA Remapping is compiled in) - it does not see any DMA Remapping devices.

And yes, I have upgraded my BIOS from latest images from HP.

By the way, I have just asked HP support about the question and they responded:

"The technology is not declared for this model", which mean "No, there will not be VT-d in DL160 G5. Ever".

I asked about future models, they responded:

"For server platforms there will be no such technology until 2009"

which also mean, that there is no HP servers with VT-d 'declared' now, only desktop machines.

So, big fat WARNING: watch out for OEM supporting the feature officially.

Chipset used for platform does not imply it has all implemented features enabled.

CONTACT OEM first. Do it.

razorblade · ‎11-02-2008

Another post to clarify VT-d support:

1) Is VT-d implemented on the X58, especially the Intel DX58SO?

2) Which chipsets (or Intel boards for that matter) support VT-d on the PCI-e 16x slot? Somewhere in the Q45 announcement I read that this is the first chipset to support VT-d on its PCI-e 16x slot, so I'm wondering about the 5400, Q35, X48 and (as mentioned above) the X58 in this context...

Thanks!

David_O_Intel1 · ‎11-14-2008

1: Yes, VT-d is implemented on DX58SO.

2: Yes, I believe it is supported on Q35 (may be SKU dependent) and X48 and X38.

Other comments from our engineering staff:

"Board slots are not selective on VT-d support. If the chipset supports VT-d, it supports it for the complete BDF space. VMMs don't support all types of devices."

"BIOS support is required and I am told some commercial distributions have it fused off."

razorblade · ‎11-16-2008

Quoting - David Ott (Intel)

1: Yes, VT-d is implemented on DX58SO.

2: Yes, I believe it is supported on Q35 (may be SKU dependent) and X48 and X38.

Other comments from our engineering staff:

"Board slots are not selective on VT-d support. If the chipset supports VT-d, it supports it for the complete BDF space. VMMs don't support all types of devices."

"BIOS support is required and I am told some commercial distributions have it fused off."

Thanks for that answer, especially getting back to engineering :-)

I may have been a bit unclear in my question, thats probably where the confusion about selective slot support came from:

I should have better asked for PEG (PCI express graphics) support instead of PCIE x16. Afaik, DMA remapping is required to get gfx cards virtualized through vt-d and a DMAr engine for the x16 slot was only introduced in the Q45 platform.

Is that correct or not? If yes, then coming back to my initial question on which other platform (that support vtd) do we have support for a DMAr enginer for a x16 port (to drive a PEG)?

Thanks again!

Razor

David_O_Intel1 · ‎11-19-2008

VT-d DMA remapping should work with PEG slots.

An engineer told me that they tested slots of various widths using a NIC card and verified that all work. (A methodology you might also try.) Note, however, that graphics card driver writers can sometimes break things by using DMA in non-standard ways in the name of optimization.

Two notes on Xen, if that's what you are using:

An engineer told me that assigning graphics devices to dom0 should work,but that assigning graphics to a guest does not work at this point.

Mailing the Xen mailing list about your question might be helpful. There are people who have tried what you are referring to.

razorblade · ‎11-20-2008

Actually I'm not reasearching for my self but trying to keep the XenWiki up-to-date because there are so many (mainly unanswered) questions in the Xen mailinglist...

waxrevenge · ‎05-12-2009

I'm a bit confused with this posting as I've just bought a SuperMicro Server PC with an "Intel Virtualization Technology" setting in the BIOS which technical support claims should work. However the motherboard is based around the Intel 5000p.

There's very little information around about how Intel VT is related to VT-D. Should these be represented by two entries in the BIOS or do they both fall under "Intel Virtualization Technology". Is it possible to have a MB which supports VT but not VT-D and if so can you run Microsoft Hyper-V on it?

Thanks,

Oli.

Quoting - switch6343

...

This link compares the 5000p server chipset (no VT support!) and the 5400 server chipset (with VT support):
http://compare.intel.com/pcc/showchart.aspx?mmID=24664,28047&familyID=9&culture=en-US

...

matheusber · ‎05-30-2009

hail,

I've been told, an this thread confirms, that my great P35 Gigabyte Motherboard can't do VT-d. When I heard about this, the first thing on mind was, what was told before here, have a unix Desktop and a Windows box to game.
why Intel don't make VT-d to P35 ? as Q35 is a cousin to it ?

Why I have to have Integrated Graphics to have VT-d ?

and most, Why this was not in 72 size fonts in P35 and Q35 reference pages before I bought it ? :/

so now I must buy another MOBO and it must be Q45 based ?

thanks,

matheus