PCIe vs CNVio and CNVio 2

[windows_guru]

I am not happy with the nonsense over CNVio and CNVio 2 as this really is an insult to established standards. PCIe x2 is the standard for the WiFi card slot. Similarly the M.2 slot for A SSD is x4.

Retrofitting laptops is a real headache as I have to select the right model to modernize around WiFi 6 or WiFi 7.

Trying a card in an i3-9100 went nowhere so I installed a PCIe x1 card instead to achieve WiFi 7 capability.

I am so incensed over incompatible slots that violate Canadian law. The competition act applies to all vendors.

[RamyerM_Intel]

Hello windows_guru, 

I am sorry to hear that your having some difficulty with the CNVio and CNVio 2. It seems you are having some issues with your wireless components. May I please know the specific model? You also mentioned that you are retrofitting laptops, are you trying to upgrade the network adapter of this systems ? Please share with us the specific model of the laptop that you are trying to retrofit. I will be waiting for your reply. 

Ramyer M.

Intel Customer Support Technician 

[CRT]

What kind of [redacted] reply was that? Hate to see wverybody go to AMD because of the help rhat wouldn’t even pass for customer service even if it were an autonated toll booth.

Maybe you should try throwing more voltage at it? Or maybe changing the socket ti fix the problem you never bothered to address in the first place?

[Vinniemac]

A PCIe+USB WiFi Card will fit in a CNVio2 system but not the other way around.

Likewise a Key A+E Card will fit in a Key E slot but not the other way around.

AX201 WiFi 6 - CNVio2 - Key E
AX211 WiFi 6E - CNVio2 - Key E
AX411 WiFi 6E (DC)- CNVio2 - Key E
Killer i/s Models - CNVio2 - Key E

BE200 WiFi 7 320Mhz - PCIe+USB - Key E
BE202 WiFi 7 160Mhz - PCIe+USB - Key E
(These WiFi 7 cards do have compatibility issues)

AX200 WiFi 6 - PCIe+USB - Key A+E
AX210 WiFi 6E - PCIe+USB - Key A+E

Note though that it also depends on the system manufacturers as to what cards are accepted and what card slot is present. It's always a good idea to check first by opening up the laptop.

If in doubt use AX200 or AX210 as they are the most universal.

Also note "CNVio2" is the interface and not the WiFi card slot, it means that the Bluetooth and WiFi Components are on the CPU and only the RF and Signalling are on the WiFi card.

"PCIe+USB" all of the components are on the WiFi Card.

Most of the incompatibility is due to system OEMs deploying WiFi Card "allowed" lists in the BIOS or on older systems that cannot handle 160Mhz or the WiFi 7 320Mhz. In this case 80Mhz cards are recommended.

CNVio2 is Intel proprietary but it does not lock you in to only using those WiFi cards because is it an interface, not a slot.

The PCIe revision for a WiFi Card is not the same as that for a NVMe SSD.

A lot of people I've seen get annoyed because they've purchased a CNVio2 interface card and put it in a non CNVio2 system and then direct the blame on Intel.

Could Intel publish more on CNVio2 to raise awareness of the technology? Yes. There is very little information from Intel, at least without searching.

[n_scott_pearson]

LOL! This is what happens when Intel outsources support to India.

...S

[CRT]

Not sure why India had to be named here when Intel is obviously cutting corners and not even publishing documentation or any basic information of their product… Maybe if they were using their profits for innovation or publishing specifications for once, you’d hate Indians less? But nah, its definitely a DEI thing; keep on ignoring the fact that outsourcing is incentivized and companies would cut costs in the most basic of places because people are different.

Do you really think they care what independent contractors are trying to learn or figure out when they have a new socket to launch or a pin to flipchip?

They sell to OEM builders by the thousands, who cares about us trying to save money when there is a planet to rule over?

[n_scott_pearson]

It's not an India issue at all. The issue is with outsourcing to another country (regardless of what country; it just so happens they chose a company in India). Customer support needs a team that is inside the company, closely integrated with the development teams. Without this level of integration, all a support team can do is use (IMHO: useless) scripted responses.
All of Intel's specifications are there if you spend a few minutes looking for them. I agree they don't make it easy (ok, downright hard sometimes). Those for H/W developers are protected and require registration with Intel (and an NDA, which is a bone of contention for open-source developers, I agree).
...S

[windows_guru]

My new Dell has a an AX211 installed so I can install an BE200 or future card in the slot until Intel changes it again. The AX211 is tri-band so I have the ability to use 6 GHz capable access points.

You need to use Windows 11 to be able to use the BE200 card as earlier versions lack the software stack for 802.111be

BE is a roll l up of AX and 6E etc. BE is about the limit as the next standard will be moving to near 42.5 GHz. 802.bn is the standard being developed for 2008 or so.

[Vinniemac]

The issue on some Dell systems that have an AX211 or AX411 from factory (12th Gen+ Intel systems) is that when you install an Intel BE200, upon reboot or power on you will not get WiFi connectivity until you log in to Windows.

You will also not be able to use BIOS Connect WiFi for system recovery over the air.

This unfortunately is a consequence of having CNVio2 with PCIe+USB being secondary.

The Dell BIOS is set up to use the WiFi on the CPU by default (AX211 and AX411 merely provide the signalling) and does not cater for standard PCIe+USB cards. This includes the update of the BIOS Connect WiFi Drivers during BIOS update when the BE200 is installed (original card needs to be installed to update the BIOS Connect Drivers)

How do I know?
I have a Dell Inspiron 5430 13th Gen Intel with a BE200 installed and while the card works flawlessly when in Windows it is limited in terms of BIOS Connect functionality.

This is partially Dell but also partially Intel. Compatibility cannot be assured when using a non CNVio2 Card.

And of course with the introduction of the Core Ultra we now have CNVio3 (which is WiFi 7 support on select CPUs) and is not backward compatible.

It honestly frustrates me with this proprietary crap and I've seen no advantages with CNVio(1,2,3) in terms of speed, latency and energy efficiency over a PCIe+USB Card.

[JacopoM]

Congratulations for the quality and exhaustive comment. I would kindly ask you if you can tell me if the BE200 uses the Cnvio 2 or 3 interface. I know that the BE202 uses the Cnvio2 at half the frequency of the BE200, so I imagine that with the BE202 there is less probability of having compatibility problems with the 11th and 10th generation laptops, right? Thanks. JM

[Vinniemac]

Hello,

I can help with some information for you for sure.

Intel BE200 WiFi 7 320 MHz is "PCIe+USB" and therefore dies not require any special interface like CNVio. It just requires M.2 Key E slot and Windows 11 24H2. it is not bound by processor support.

Intel BE202 WIFI 7 160 MHz is like the above but only operates at WiFi 6E speeds (2400 Mbps)

Intel BE201 WiFi 7 320 MHz is like Intel BE200 but uses CNVio3 and is bound by the processor (Core Ultra Lunar Lake)

CNVuo, CNVio2 and CNVio3 are not backward compatible due to the WiFi components being on the processor.

For WiFi 7 generally the Intel BE200 is the most compatible card and only requires Windows 11 24H2 and M.2 Key E Slot. (Note that this is an Intel forum but this card does not behave well on AMD systems often resulting in the system not booting)

I hope this helps

Best wishes

[n_scott_pearson]

First of all, I neglected to point out that I attached my Intel Wireless Card cheat sheet to my previous post. It contains an explanation of the Intel chipsets necessary to support particular wireless cards.

Based upon this information, another choice available to you, should you only have a Wi-Fi 6/6E router, is to use the AX411 card. It allows you to use Intel's Double Connect Technology (DCT), which supports the use of two bands (2.4GHz+5GHz or 2.4GHZ+6GHz) simultaneously. That gives you support for up to 3Gb/s transfers. I see the module is available on Amazon.com

Just saying,

...S

[windows_guru]

I am more interested in the BE200 which I have some in hand for retrogrades.

Key A machines top out at AX210 while Key E machines seem to be the way forward.

PCIe + USB seems to be the design forward as the older design had to wire the USB to the motherboard somewhere. PCIe 3.0 and faster are adequate for BE200 but most such machines have to be carefully assessed.

[Vinniemac]

Absolutely.

My Intel BE200 is using the PCIe 4.0 x1 on my 13th Gen Intel system but the card is only operating at 8 GT/s out of the max PCIe 4.0 speed of 16 GT/s, so indeed PCIe 3.0 Spec will be sufficient for this card. Any less and the card will likely only run at half speed (~3000 Mbps).

While having the WiFi Components on the Processor allows for reduced latency and faster access from sleep state of the card it is less than convenient due to each generation of processor only being able to support certain CNVio cards. For example I am limited to AX211 or AX411 WiFi 6E (and Intel Killer equivalents) CNVio2 on my 13th Gen Intel Processor (This would generally be enough for most users).

I cannot see Intel stopping production of PCIe+USB WiFi Cards though due to system builders and I suspect the amount of units they sell. A lot of motherboards have Key E slots for WiFi these days.

I do however now think that M.2 Key E is the standard moving forward which of course Intel AX210 cards will fit in and run happily.

[LionelWiFi7]

Hello Vinnie & others contributors 

Where can you see or what tool are you using to check that your BE200 is connected using PCIe 4.0 x1 ? 

"HWwinfo" is clear on SSD PCIe details, but there is no details for BE200.

I'm using an acer Swift GO 16 equiped with an i5-1335U, Techpowerup CPU database shows for M2 wireless : PCIe 3.0 x1.

My understanding is usable bandwidth is 8 GT/s = 8 Gbit/s = 7.88 Gbit/s (encoding overhead deduced) or 0.985 GB/s.

So BE200 connected with PCie 3.0 x1 is good enough to cover default WiFi 7 speed of 5.8 Gbit/s.

However when using WiFi 7 MLO STR (5GHz + 6GHz), total wireless speed goes to 8.6 Gbit/s (6 GHz 5.8 Gbit/s + 5 GHz 2.8 Gbit/s)

In this case it seems PCie 3.0 x1 falls short by 760 Mbit/s, do you confirm ?

[windows_guru]

The Intel AX210 is popular as it supports triband which can afford more channels in dense urban areas.  I have installed AX210 in many 8th gen class machines. 

Older machines with the earlier mini PCIe can still get an AX1000 card which is dramatically better than the OEM. I have used that card in a few older machines.

The old AC9560 is not a bad card but the AX210 is much faster with AX or better access points.

[Hoya112]

我有一塊 ROG z690 extreme glacial 主機板，內置 AX211 wifi 6E
我可以買 BE200 來替換原來的 WIFI 模組嗎？

[n_scott_pearson]

@Hoya112,

The AX211 module is permanently attached to your motherboard and your motherboard does not include a M.2 Type E socket to support the installation of an alternate wireless solution.

All is not lost, however. You can either (1) use a PCIe-to-M.2 WiFi Network Card Converter, such as this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0882Z3MKL, to host a BE200 card, or (2) you can purchase a PCIe card, such as this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CW35B4NR, that already has the BE200 module integrated.

In either case, you also need to go into BIOS Setup and disable the onboard AX211 module.

Hope this helps,

...S

[windows_guru]

My Dell Latitude 5440 has a socketed WiFi slot so I am free to install a BE200 or subsequent model 802.11be class card

Some machines are soldered but I dislike them as technology changes so why not upgrade.