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SLang3
Beginner
3,450 Views

Ethernet phy i210 transformerless

Hi Intel community,

we are implementing the i210 in an embedded design and are wondering if it is possible to build a transformerless ethernet connection with it.

We would like to connect two i210 via 1m CAT5E cable.

as transformerless ethernet ever been tried with the i210?

As far as I know, the architecture of the driver ciruitry in the phy plays a role in this. Acc to the datasheet, the i210 has voltage mode drivers, that can be set to work in Class A or Class B mode. Maybe you can give us some more information (maybe a rough schematic) on how the analog circuitry looks like. How did you implement Class A and Class B mode with the voltage mode driver?

Thank you and best regards, Stefan Lange

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16 Replies
Adolfo_S_Intel
Employee
398 Views

Hello GatewareSL

As you can see on section 12.5 of the Datasheet: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/embedded/products/networking/i210-ethernet-controller-datashe... I210 Datasheet . The i210-AT/IT should be used with either discrete or integrated magnetics as they impact the compliance with IEEE standards.

Read carefully chapter 12 Design Considerations of the datasheet before implementing your solution; specially sections 12.5 Ethernet Interface, and 12.7 Power Supplies.

If you need to implement a transformerless solution you could use the i210-AS/IS as a MAC and connect it to a transformerless external PHY module using the SGMII/SERDES interface.

Here is the Reference Design Schematic for both technologies:

I210-AS/IS: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ethernet-controllers/i210-is-reference-design-schematic.html http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ethernet-controllers/i210-is-reference-design-schematic.html

I210-AT/IT: http://www.intel.com/content/www/xa/en/secure/intelligent-systems/privileged/gbe-i210-i211-at-schema... http://www.intel.com/content/www/xa/en/secure/intelligent-systems/privileged/gbe-i210-i211-at-schema...

This link might also be useful to you: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/embedded/products/networking/ethernet-controller-i210-i211-fa... http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/embedded/products/networking/ethernet-controller-i210-i211-fa...

Best Regards,

Adolfo Sanchez

SLang3
Beginner
398 Views

Hello Adolfo and community,

I received some information from intel support:

There is an application note "480093" on transformerless ethernet, featuring also the i210.

I am note sure if I may post the link here.

Also, intel support stated the following:

"For the magnetic-less design, for I210 we recommend to use "0.47uF" for the capacitor value.

The capacitor placement is arbitrary, but the capacitor value is critical to the success of the design. See Table 1 for recommended starting values. Deviation from these values may be necessary. In some cases, the value of the capacitor will need to change due to vendor and device PHY performance variation.

It is recommended that system designers should layout the PCB backplane such that the differential traces match the characteristic impedance of Category 5 or 5E UTP cable, which is ~100Ω."

It is understood that transformerless operation should be implemented on PCB connections only (not cable).

We will implement a short cable (1m) transformerless design anyway, with a fallback option to transformer operation. I will post the results in a couple months, hopefully I wont forget.

Best regards,

Stefan Lange

Gateware Communications GmbH

Gabriel_T_Intel
Employee
398 Views

Hello Stefan,

We would like to know how is your project doing and if you could post the results, this information is very valuable for the Community.

Any comment will be appreciated.

Regards,

Gabriel Thomas

idata
Community Manager
398 Views

Hi Stefen,

I am doing something similar as well. I have successfully used an Intel I210 adapter, removed the integrated RJ45, and wired directly to another CCA as a PHY to PHY type implementation (less than 12"). The final design shall be consolidated on one PCB. Vitesse has a white paper that discusses PHY to PHY (transformerless) which has been useful. It's pretty easy to do as the I210 is a voltage mode type versus the current mode design.

Please let us know how you've progressed.

Andy Siwarski

idata
Community Manager
398 Views

How can I get a copy of the Intel 480093 app note? Is there anyone from Intel who could email it to me?

Gabriel_T_Intel
Employee
398 Views

Hello Andy,

We are going to upload this file to the EDC library. As soon as it is available we will let you know.

Thanks,

Gabriel Thomas

Natalie_Z_Intel
Employee
398 Views

Hello, Everyone. It appears that document 480093 is not available for general distribution. Andy, I sent your request to Tracy, the account manager who covers your geographical territory to see if she can offer any assistance. At this time I don't have clear idea of the timing of when/if that document will be made available on the website. Sorry for the inconvenience. LynnZ.

I learned a bit more about this document. It describes how to do a magnetic-less design with i210. As magnetics help protect the chip it is highly recommended to avoid magnetic-less designs in order to prevent potential problems. Hope this helps! LynnZ

HBrue
Beginner
398 Views

Hello Everyone,

I'm interested in this solution.

How can I get the document 480093 ?

Perhaps someone from Intel can add to my IPS Issue.

Intel Premier Support - Issue # 6000156526 - Transformerless Ethernet Design 1Gb - has been UPDATED

Thank you

Harald

CarlosAM_INTEL
Moderator
398 Views

Hello HBruenig

Thank you for contacting the Intel Embedded Community.

Please review again and let us know if you request has been attended.

Best Regards,

Carlos_A.

HBrue
Beginner
398 Views

Hello Carlos,

thank you for the information in IPS.

The Intel 82580/I350/I210 Magnetic-Less LAN Design Guide (BH_PWVL_SPVL_MagneticLess_v1.1.pdf) was the right one for me.

In the moment we don't know which Ethernet controller / phys we are connected.

This depend also on our customer.

The document shows me the basics and describe the different between current mode and voltage mode.

So I assume it could be a problem to use one end a voltage mode and other end a current mode.

Best Regards

Harald

CarlosAM_INTEL
Moderator
398 Views

Hello HBruenig,

Thanks for your update.

We are glad to hear that your request has been answered.

For tracking proposes please keep your communications through the channel that you are using originally, also it avoid make double efforts to help you.

Best Regards,

Carlos_A.

NFior
Beginner
398 Views

Hello,

we are developing an application with i210IT controller and we need support to build a transformerless application (we need to connect two controller inside the same board without cable). We can't access support for get the Application Note. I contacted my local support, sent support email etc... but it seems impossible to gain access to this document. What we can do?

Please help me. We need also the IBIS model

Thnaks

Best Regards

CarlosAM_INTEL
Moderator
398 Views

Hello, Nicola82:

Thank you for contacting Intel Embedded Community.

The listed documents are classified as Intel confidential, which requires a CDNA between your company and Intel as well as a Privileged Resource & Design Center (RDC) account. It can be requested by filling out the form stated at the following website:

https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/forms/design/registration-privileged.html https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/forms/design/registration-privileged.html

The Intel Ethernet Controllers 82580, I350, I210 Magnetic-less LAN Design Guide document # 480093 and Intel Ethernet Controller I210 [Springville] I/O Buffer Information Specification [IBIS] Models document # 506527 can be downloaded when you are login to your EDC privileged account at the following websites:

https://cdrd.intel.com/v1/dl/getContent/480093 https://cdrd.intel.com/v1/dl/getContent/480093

https://cdrd.intel.com/v1/dl/getContent/506527 https://cdrd.intel.com/v1/dl/getContent/506527

We hope that this information may help you.

Best regards,

Carlos_A.

HSakm
Beginner
398 Views

Hi,

I am trying to access the document under 480093, and am in contact with Intel to receive credentials.

But I wanted to find out in the meantime, whether if it is possible to run 82580EB magnetic-less while targeting 1000-BaseT? Both devices are on the same PCB board.

Cheers

Hakan

CarlosAM_INTEL
Moderator
398 Views

Hello, Hsakman_69 :

Thank you for contacting Intel Embedded Community.

In order to be on the same page, could you please let us know if your previous message is related to the Carlos_A.

HSakm
Beginner
398 Views

Dear Carlos,

yes indeed, seeing that the same topic has been discussed here (magneticless-connection solution) I wanted to drop a line here too. Sorry for the confusion caused.

Kind regards.

Hakan