I211/I217-V Windows 10 LACP teaming fails

[FKurt]

Hello,

after the update to Windows 10 (x64, Build 10240) the creation of a teaming group (static or IEEE802.3ad) with a I211+I217-V NIC fails.

Drivers have been upgraded to the latest version available and multiple reinstallations with reboots din't help either. Whenever the group creation wizzard is used and a groupname (several tried), the adapters and LACP have been selected, a Windows pop-up appears to tell me group creation has failed.

However the Windows Device Manager shows a newly created "Intel Advanced Network Services Virtual Adapter", so some kind of configuration seems to get done.

Using Windows 7 SP1 x64 the exact same setup worked flawlessly for months, so Win10/the driver are the likely culprit.

Is anyone experiencing similar problems and/or is this a known bug? Feedback on this issue is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Kind regards,

Famaku

[idata]

Teaming on a client SKU was never supported by Microsoft.

Intel made it work with ANS on Windows 7. They have not, thus far, been able to get it to work reliably on Windows 10.

If Microsoft is guilty of anything it would be in making changes to the networking stack in Windows 10 that rendered a third party utility from working. This is, in essence, no differant than a Windows upgrade breaking a printer driver. Everyone (myself very much included) is just hopping mad about this particular software not working because in previous versions of Windows it provided a feature that Microsoft never supported; namely, network VLAN/Load Balancing and Failover capabilities.

It's a subtle, but important difference. Microsoft didn't "take anything away", per say; Intel simply hasn't been able to get it to work as they did with Windows 7.

Microsoft can help troubleshoot, but the question at this point is how much are they interested in helping and are they, in any way, shape, or form, stalling the process.

[DCol]

MS is really messing with networking in Windows 10 seeing that Network Discovery is broken in the latest update (14915). My feeling is that Intel has been given the word from MS that teaming is not a priority thus support from MS is very limited. And seeing all the tinkering that MS is doing to networking in Windows 10 makes it even harder for Intel.

But bottom line is MS should allow LBFO at least in their Windows 10 Enterprise edition. You should not need a server edition just to provide teaming to enterprise desktop users.

[MMath7]

I hope we'll have a reaction from Intel / Carl after those news...

I can understand the point of having features specific to some higher cost versions, but when you are selling so called "Pro" and "Enterprise" versions of the OS and still disabling teaming in those versions that's just nonsense.

The excuse of the "bug" of letting the feature enabled in first build is really amazing to say the less...

I hope Carl will react soon in those "columns"

regards

[DMcCo3]

Good points. Thanks for pointing that out. I can only hope Intel can pull through. At least now I have more of an understanding why it has taken this long and why there may not be a solution with Windows 10. I can't fault Intel. I can understand why they need to be thorough with their testing.

Thanks, Carl! Thanks, Intel. And thanks to those in the community fighting the fight and trying to get our voices heard.

[CUllr]

And then there's the other half of the feature. While I'm not personally affected by the loss of teaming - I have never used it on client systems, and don't really have a particular need for it - what I want back very badly is VLAN interfaces. Over the past few weeks, I've gone through Intel, Realtek, and Broadcom hardware, and Realtek is the only manufacturer that does not treat teaming and VLAN as a unit (i.e. can still create VLAN interfaces on Windows 10).

I understand that Intel is working hard at getting ANS to work again, or as hard as they can when their only remaining obstacle is Microsoft, but if Intel could give me my VLANs back and leave the LBFO part for another day, that would be fine with me. At the same time, I have no doubt that there are lots of client workloads that profit from teaming as well.

For Microsoft to stand there and say "this was never supported on client OSes, so when we did whatever we did to the networking stack in 10 that caused teaming not to work anymore, that was just collateral damage and we don't really care" is incredible. They were obviously aware that this was a feature offered by NIC manufacturers on prior client OS versions.

[MMath7]

chrullrich a écrit:

They were obviously aware that this was a feature offered by NIC manufacturers on prior client OS versions.

in case they were not, i'm wondering about the content of the test program for drivers certification...

[mchri131]

Yes, 802.1q VLAN support is all I need.

[MPool2]

chrullrich wrote:

While I'm not personally affected by the loss of teaming - I have never used it on client systems, and don't really have a particular need for it - what I want back very badly is VLAN interfaces

Likewise. This lack of VLAN support has iced our planned migration from a mixture of 7 and 8.1 to 10, because we deliver soft phones by VLAN to pretty much the entire office. Those with Realtek chipsets (fewer than half) might be fine, but the Intel machines will all be right out of luck.

@Carl_Wilson, is splitting the VLAN and LBFO functionality being considered? Judging from what MS have said LBFO is going to continue to be painful on workstation platforms in future, but VLAN support seems to be operable based on other comments here.

[DMcCo3]

Latest in the thread I pointed out earlier, there's potentially light at the end of this tunnel.

"I can go into some detail, however not much due to confidentially.

I can confirm we we are working closely with Intel in regards to issues they have encountered with their ANS software that enables VLAN tagging and NIC teaming. My understanding after discussion with the product group last week is that all the outstanding issues that had been filed with us have been resolved at this time and we are waiting to hear back further regarding testing/validation to ensure no other bugs are blocking Intel regarding their ANS solution.

I hope this helps.

Adam Rudell | Windows Networking Beta | Microsoft Corporation"

Looking forward to any additional information and again, thanks to all.

[idata]

Holy Cats!

Latest Update on the Microsoft thread (https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/66166918-5b67-4754-89e5-a2572b1888a2/ NIC Teaming failed (Build 10568) Windows 10):

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can go into some detail, however not much due to confidentially.

I can confirm we we are working closely with Intel in regards to issues they have encountered with their ANS software that enables VLAN tagging and NIC teaming. My understanding after discussion with the product group last week is that all the outstanding issues that had been filed with us have been resolved at this time and we are waiting to hear back further regarding testing/validation to ensure no other bugs are blocking Intel regarding their ANS solution.

I hope this helps.

Adam Rudell | Windows Networking Beta | Microsoft Corporation

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps now that Microsoft has finally buttoned up all the tickets Intel has opened with them, and the ball finally appears to be back in Intel's court, the end of our long national nightmare drawing to a close...? At least we can hope, I suppose.

Given the word from Microsoft, now would be a fantastic time for an update from our buddy,

Carl_Wilson,

PS: Maybe even 'ol RocketTech, given the last few posts ( and ) highlighting Microsoft's "right-from-the-horses-mouth" position on native LBFO on Windows Client SKUs - coupled with the latest note from Microsoft that they, as of last week, have finally been able to close out all open tickets that Intel had opened with them - can now finally be satisfied that this isn't all Intel's doing. And that, just maybe, Microsoft has had some culpability in the delays here. Fancy that.

[CARL_W_Intel]

Thanks for tagging me on the thread so it proactively pinged me. I admit I haven't looked in a few days.

Let me check with the team and get back with you.

[DCol]

Is that a dim light I see at the end of the tunnel?

[idata]

Thanks Carl_Wilson,

Sounds like Microsoft is willing to play ball with you guys on this, so hoping this can get banged out in short order!

Joey

[CARL_W_Intel]

The good news. I've checked with the Windows driver development team here. The comment from Adam (MS Networking Beta) is accurate. I can confirm that our testing with the latest RS2 Beta shows no blocking issues with Teaming and VLAN setup/tear-down with our existing driver (internally enabled for testing of the features). Therefore, once RS2 is released it can be re-enabled for that Windows release.

The not as good news, it doesn't help with the existing releases. We are working with MS to determine if there is something they can do to help re-enable the capability in the current shipping releases. If there is a patch to the OS that applies the RS2 changes to the previous releases, we can do a very fast point release since only the driver needs to code changes (only turning the capability back on).

[idata]

Carl_Wilson,

Hmmm... Everything I'm seeing indicates Redstone 2 isn't coming out until aroudn the same time of new Surface Pro hardware comes out (Spring 2017 at earliest).

It also seems a little squirrely to have a drive that works on a specific "build" of Windows 10 verses just plain old "Windows 10". Would the driver check to make sure that the user had a certain patch level, and dynamically allow (or disallow) creation of VLAN/Teams at runtime?

Definitely let us know what you hear back on backporting those patches to current Windows Builds. I'm going to ask about this on the Microsoft forum as well.

Thanks Carl!

[DCol]

Carl_Wilson,

Redstone 2 is already out as the insider build 14915. I have it running on one test system. How about releasing the drivers for us testers running Redstone 2.

I will report my findings on this forum with wireshark endpoint tests.

PM me if you have to.

[idata]

You know Carl_Wilson, thinking through this a bit further now... If the driver could simply do a Windows version check at installation (or, at runtime) and dynamically enable or disable based on the patch level... You could essentially do your point release now, with a high degree of confidence that it will be disabled for who it needs to be disabled for, and enabled for who it needs to be enabled for... Right?

Then if down the road MS backports the fix via a KB patch, you could simply do the same thing (another point release) to have it verify that patch is installed before allowing the feature to be visible.

gets you guys COMPLETELY out of the position to be a roadblock. You're driver works, right now. All you are waiting on is RS2 to be released, at which point the driver automatically works as expected with no further work for you guys to do.

Eh, eh, eh...?

[JLams1]

Eagerly awaiting a fix on this issue which I just discovered after a motherboard upgrade. Following

[LJ]

I been watching this thread since it started a yr back reading between the lines here.... Intel have 10GB Nic's coming to the market and M$ breaks teaming over a year ago do you really think these guys (Intel & M$) are going to fix this ahead of forth coming profits? I been waiting for OVER a year now so you may as well wait for Jesus to fall from the sky. Dont see this happening anytime soon if at all.

[DCol]

like the biblical reference. lol.

The release of the 10Gb hardware should not be a deterrence since that will take a while to propagate. Bringing back teaming will just be a gateway to the next generation of NIC's. 10Gb Ethernet adapters and fiber has been around for a while and prices have come way down. The real issue with 10Gb for me is the availability and prices of switches and routers. Intel does not make those. I do think there is some pushback from MS. That is obvious since nothing is done with the solution in hand. There is way more going on behind the scene than we know on this issue or it would have been done already.

[ALias]

Thanks for the feedback, Carl_Wilson.

I guess we'll have to wait until the 26th of this month to see what Microsoft has planned with RS2 and when it could be released. And, of course, if by that time teaming/vlan indeed has been fixed. I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen this year anymore, and that means we'll be switching all lower level workstations to Linux to prevent OS-fragmentation. Not because every single one needs teaming or vlan, but simply because internal support is a lot easier when we run one flavor of OS on the work floor.

I'm not exactly convinced about Linux being a good alternative to Windows when it comes to desktop environments, but Microsoft has shown quite a few times now that support just isn't their thing. This whole breaking-vlan episode is just another good example. They keep pushing customers (and consumers I guess) to alternatives. Bad support is never good marketing.

Like I said, we'll see on the 26th.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/octoberevent Microsoft Windows 10 event