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Screen Flicker

sshah254
Beginner
3,996 Views

Hi,

Creating a new thread based on tech support's request:

Original thread here - https://community.intel.com/t5/Graphics/Intel-UHD-Graphics-630-I-suspect-causes-my-screen-to-randomly/m-p/1346342

I have a similar issue (screen flickers) on the Intel 630 (am using an Aaeon motherboard - MIX-KLUD1).

Everything will be working fine for, let's say 10 mins, and then something triggers and the screen will blank for a second and then be back to normal.  It might repeat this for a few times before stabilizing.  Only to get unstable again after another @10 mins.  Sometimes it works fine for a few days with no "flicker".

We use a few motherboards (medical instruments co.), but it does not happen on all the motherboards, only some of them.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks.

 

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19 Replies
sshah254
Beginner
3,995 Views

Question for whoever responds to this - is is possible for the Intel driver to initiate / trigger a screen blank for (almost exactly) 1 second?  If so, under what conditions would the driver initiate such an event.

Thanks.

 

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n_scott_pearson
Super User
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The blanking you are seeing is the monitor and the GFX engine losing communications with each other. They try again - and reconnect  - after a second.

...S

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sshah254
Beginner
3,978 Views

Hi Scott,

Thanks.

Do you have idea(s) of what might cause this?  And what we can do to prevent it?

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sshah254
Beginner
3,963 Views

Hi @Alx24 ,

Its a LVDS panel with fixed resolution and refresh rate, so we cannot change that.

Thanks.

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Alx24
New Contributor II
3,959 Views
LVDS Up to 1920 x 1200 @ 60 Hz, Dual Channel 18/24 bit

 

"16:10"

 

"18/24 bit"

 

The event is very rare and only requires a minor change of any parameter in the correct
direction. The frequency of 59 Hz could certainly help a lot. You can also improve cooling with more powerful or additional fans, improve external cooling conditions, and clean the computer case of dust. In the BIOS, you can check the values of the supply voltages of the source and on the board, change the fan mode to a more intensive one. Small power setting voltages can improve performance and avoid unwanted phenomena on screens. The most radical is the replacement of the processor. There are "good" and "bad" computers. You can move something from "good" computers to "bad" so that everyone becomes "good". These are processors and power supplies. It is worth paying attention to the memory configuration and try the dual-channel mode with the existing modules. Connecting an external display to computer's HDMI connector lets you assess whether graphics system performance is adequate. Within a single screen frequency, there are many options for fine-tuning in the IGCC (Intel Graphics Control Center) "Custom Resolution".

 

Always there is software "Мicrosoft Basic Display Adapter" for testing ( Simple Safe Mode at reboot ). This makes it possible to assess the correctness of the video adapter performing a very important part of its work on transfer of video data from frame-buffer along the lines of the graphical interface to the display at a frequency of 64 Hz.

 

When connecting an external HDMI 4K display or TV, the mode should be completely free

Max Resolution (HDMI)‡
4096x2304@24Hz

 

Try to understand the difference between "good" and "bad" computers in hardware and settings.

 

You may temporary disable Turbo Boost at good processor cooling for testing.

https://www.geeks3d.com/20170213/how-to-disable-intel-turbo-boost-technology-on-a-notebook/

 

On the other hand, you have a great opportunity to switch to efficient large and beautiful 4K displays that
should be chosen taking into account the prospects of USB-C and Thunderbolt interfaces.

Alx24.

 

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sshah254
Beginner
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Hi @Alx24 

Thanks for the detailed input.

I'll try to address everything that we have done and you have mentioned.

Yes, it is set to the correct parameters as required by the LVDS.  On some motherboards, it shows up at 59Hz, on some at 60Hz.  There is only one motherboard on which we have seen it at 64Hz and were wondering why (maybe that one booted up in safe mode like you mentioned and that helps).

Would love to go with USB3 and 4k displays, bur hardware is locked for now.

We have been thinking along the same lines, test it with an external power supply to see if that is the issue.  We can test this, but the problem is there is no way for us to reliably induce a flicker.

If there is some piece of code, or some test hardware that we can buy, which we can use to reliably induce this flicker, then that helps a lot.  As of now, we are trying a lot of different things to reliably induce this flicker.

We are capturing a lot of data (with hwinfo and hwmonitor), but then we don't know what to look for specifically in there.

We did think about disabling hardware acceleration (if it is available on this chipset), but could not find where to do it on the IoT Win version.  Yes, disabling Turbo-boost is one more thing we can look into.

We are looking into dual-data-rate RAM. The processor is i3, and I think that's the highest that the motherboard will support.

Last case, change the motherboard if we have to.

Again, any specific direction that you can provide helps us.

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sshah254
Beginner
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Hi @Alx24 ,

Forgot to mention that these are brand new instruments, so no dust in there.  The lab is kept at a fairly controlled temp., but ofc temp on the motherboard / processor may vary and be a bit higher than the ambient one.  There are enough fans in the system to keep it cool.

 

 

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Alx24
New Contributor II
3,899 Views

If an unusually large number of computers have stopped working correctly then this is unusual for Intel processors
who regularly undergo random reliability tests and there is no loss of control over 14 nm technology. I didn't know you had Windows IoT, but I worked with it and worked well enough for myself present. You can easily work with it by writing your own programs and running them remotely debugging in Microsoft Visual Studio on such systems. As far as i understand, Windows 10 can be installed if
disconnect the existing system drive and use a new one. You have great opportunities to work with the BIOS, prohibiting including unused devices and setting the most favorable parameters, for example, controlling fans and controlling supply voltages. You can install a more powerful processor and chassis fan. You can also analyze the dynamics of the appearance and progression of problems with displays. The components inside the computer must first be well cooled and must be supplied with an accurate supply voltage. From the available memory modules, you can build a very useful dual-channel memory for graphics. Doesn't seem to have expired yet
warranty period and this fee is popular on the internet and you can try to find out something there. Difference
between 59 Hz and 60 Hz I felt here when at a slightly lower frequency there are no problems

https://community.intel.com/t5/Graphics/External-monitor-turning-on-and-off-while-connected-via-HDMI-to/m-p/1347261#M104328

You can also try to use the power filter although the problems are only about graphics and not about the computational performance of the processor on the whole. You can also avoid using the RJ-45 network interface and similar external components.
Typically, such systems have a low-power power supply, the output voltage of which, when the load changes, can
deviate. if you assume that a similar problem covers a significant number of devices you can focus on one of them.

Alx24.

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sshah254
Beginner
3,893 Views

The instrument does have a custom, capable power supply.  But it may be dipping, "just enough" to cause the flicker.

Last night our system monitor caught the system flicker with nothing running on it.  It just had MS Paint open.

Do you know of any tool that can be used to induce this flicker?  Or put the GFX into debug mode to capture the event?

 

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Alx24
New Contributor II
3,877 Views

A very rare onset of this phenomenon indicates how small a change there is in any the parameter is required to correct it.
I was very interested to watch the Intel Compute Stick tiny fan which did not allow to hope for its very long-term operation and reliability such secondary devices are given much less attention than the reliability of processors, but in the responsible
systems can have dual fans. At one point, this ICS stopped loading. And before that, I had been hearing unusual fan sounds for some time. He has a standard Micro-USB power supply and I picked up a suitable one along with a powerful fan with a 3-12 volt power supply for it and in such conditions it worked steadily for another month. With some power supplies, it did not work at all, and with others intermittently. After stopping operation, ICS does not heat up at all and this may not be due to the processor itself.
Hot components also include M.2 SSDs, so Intel NUC11, for example, has an adjacent it has a soft thermal interface element that has contact with the metal HDD slot as a good radiator on the other hand. These devices have data correctness control so they cannot cause an error but they can cause some delay even more so when connecting to PCIe. In the case of a regular computer, you can simply start replace all replaceable components on the board including the processor and very quickly find the cause of the malfunction without reinstalling software. It seems you can change the power supplies between systems. There is a certain set of parameters of work changing the systems helps to identify the place of malfunction and possibly correct it. You can check the display connector, increased or decreased screen brightness. Almost black pixels or vice versa white or color pictures on the display screen.

Search internet "Windows video adapter event logging"

Samples

https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4749/~/collecting-gpu-logs-using-gpu-z

https://www.tenforums.com/graphic-cards/93659-graphics-card-crashing-nothing-event-viewer.html

Alx24.

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sshah254
Beginner
3,871 Views

Thanks @Alx24 

I have the logging going on with GPU-Z.

But first we need to find a reliable way to get this screen to flicker.  Only after that can we start looking into what's causing it / how to fix it.

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Alx24
New Contributor II
3,867 Views

Windows kernel mode errors are in file "ntstatus.h"

[MS-ERREF]: NTSTATUS Values | Microsoft Docs

This file is in Microsoft Windows SDK or in Microsoft Visual Studio.

 

Sample 

0xC01E0334

STATUS_GRAPHICS_MONITOR_COULD_NOT_BE_ASSOCIATED_WITH_ADAPTER

 

You are using probably Windows IoT Enterprise.


https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/95442/intel-core-i37100u-processor-3m-cache-2-40-ghz.html

Intel® Turbo Boost Technology ‡
No

 

It is not difficult to try to change the display at the system manufacturer since it is not a phone or tablet.

In this case, the frequency limit for HD Graphics of the processor is much farther away than for the display.

 

There is

PS8615 - eDP to LVDS - Parade Technologies, Ltd.

"eDP to LVDS"

 

Alx24. 

 

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sshah254
Beginner
3,845 Views

Hi,

Where are these errors logged?

We would entertain the eDP to LVDS option, except for - if we have an HDMI monitor plugged into the motherboard at the same time as the LVDS one, then we see both of them flicker.  It seems like its the whole graphics subsystem that "flickers" not just the LVDS.

And my bad - we are using the Kaby Lake i5 processors (not i3).

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Alx24
New Contributor II
3,841 Views

For this case there is another simple internal graphics test "Print Screen" key:

http://community.intel.com/t5/Graphics/External-monitor-turning-on-and-off-while-connected-via-HDMI-to/m-p/1347548#M104358

https://community.intel.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/25190i177504D4F32BD8D7/image-dimensions/679x219?v=v2

 

There are MB's with I5 and I7 (U) and processors are possibly also unchangeable. 

 

You may simply change resolution and frequency for HDMI display.

 

In IGCC (Intel Graphics Control Center) there is "Custom Resolution" with resolution and frame frequency.

 

It may be still software problem. For test this simply enter graphic BIOS and wait or Safe Mode with auto "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter".

 

Problem with one display may cause effect on both.  It may be full graphic driver reload and all displays detection or not. With two displays pause may be longer.

 

There is possibility disconnect LVDS display cable or disable it in "Device Manager" or "Output only..." to HDMI display in "Settings" -> "Display" and explore this configuration.

 

Configuration in "Device Manager" may auto change as at USB device plug/unplug. There is here "Display Adapter" -> "Properties" -> "Events"

 

Simply record video of screen and "Task Manager" activity window "Processes:", "Performance" / "CPU", "Performance" / "GPU" to simple observation of screen effects.

 

There is USB A - HDMI adapter as another way for graphic output.

 

Alx24.

 

 

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sshah254
Beginner
3,786 Views

Hi @Alx24 

Do you have any information on how "turbo boost" might affect screen flickers?

Thanks

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Alx24
New Contributor II
3,777 Views

"Turbo Boost" is very interesting question. Boost inсreases the frequency and voltage of the processor and, if so,
happens in concert, then all is well. But it is not known whether this applies to graphics on a chip and whether it works as a processor part in this mode, although a significant software part of a large driver of course works on the CPU with both maximum and minimum frequency.

When it happens constantly and very autonomously from other parts of the processor and graphics, the display of the image on the screen video data is taken from the frame-buffer in memory and converted into signals on the lines of the graphical interface.
If the computer has two memory modules running in dual-channel mode, you can try to remove one and look at the result. The remaining 4GB of memory will be quite enough.

You can restart your computer in Safe Mode and see how everything works with "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter".

You can also change the power supply with another device and LVDS.

You can view the power saving mode settings related to the display.

At the beginning of the previous decade, such an interface was very widely used in tablets.

Alx24.

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sshah254
Beginner
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Hi @Alx24  - for this motherboard that we have, it is confirmed that Turbo Boost is causing the screen to flicker.

Doesn't make sense, why it would do that since it's all on the same chip (i5-7300), but that's what's causing it.

We found another thread on Dell's website ( https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS-13-9310-Display-brightness-flicker-when-under-single-core/td-p/7823125 ) .

Same thing - Dell XPS 13" model - disable turbo boost, and screen flickers go away.

I don't know what else do we need to do to close this thread, but for now, I think we will need to look into disabling Turbo Boost - either through BIOS, or in software.

Thanks

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sshah254
Beginner
3,754 Views

@Alx24 - thank you for all your help.  You have very good technical knowledge, some of which helped us resolve this problem.

Good Luck.

 

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