eye strain

[CNeub]

hello,

I have a Notebook with Intel Core i7 4710 - Intel Graphics 4600 and external Nvidia Gforce GTX 850M for about 2 weeks now. I connect the Notebook on two different places per HDMI with nearly three year old lg monitors. With my old Notebook (Intel Core2Duo and Nvidia Gforce 9500GT) I had not any problems with this two monitors. However when I connect one of the two monitors with my new Notebook I get eye strain and headache. Of course I use the right resolution FullHD and tried out different brigthness and contrast adjustments in intel graphic properties. OS is Windows 7 Prof x64 and the newest drivers are installed. Version:15.33.22.64.3621

Nearly two months ago I purchased an other Notebook with Intel Core i7 4700MQ - Intel Graphics 4600 and Nvidia Gforce GT755 M. I had the same problem there and so I sent it back, because I thought that the Notebook has an defect. I tried out Windows 7 and Windows 8 and had the same eye problems in the two different OS.Now I do not really know what the problem exactly is, because I have these problems with two different Notebooks on two different external LG Monitors and the integrated Displays of the Notebooks. But I thinkt the problem is the Intel HD 4600. Maybe that there is something wrong with the driver.Do you have any ideas about this? Couse I can't purchase and send back new Notebooks all the time.

Sorry for my bad english

[KChen83]

Hi, I posted about a year half ago an eye strain issue with a new ASUS laptop. I returned my ASUS laptop and got hit with a re-stocking fee and continued to use my old SONY laptop with an ATI video card without any eyestrain problem. Now my laptop is more than 5 1/2 years old and coming to end of its life. It's very frustrating that Intel has not resolved this problem and I am forced to use a very old laptop for work.

I want to see if anyone has bought and tried the new Lenovo 710s Plus notebook with standalone NVIDIA Geforce 940MX? I have pretty much given up on Intel video card / drivers. I am worried that Window 10 video driver is also the issue given I am still running fine on Window 7 laptop. Thanks

[jve]

Hello everybody once again

I just wanted to post two more of my experiences.

I have recently purchased a used Lenovo Yoga/Flex 13inch with IntelHD 4400. Since I have experienced eyestrain first time last year, I wanted to be cautious and try a used laptop and see how it goes. It didn't went that bad actually.. At first I was quite happy but after just few days I started feeling the strain and my eyes getting tired.. I have to use my old Dell again to relieve the strain... So I tried to disable the graphic drivers on Lenovo Yoga - and a relief So it's definitely the drivers.

So I decided to go for a laptop with dedicated graphics and I got myself a Dell Inspiron with AMD dedicated graphic card - that on has integrated Intel HD graphics 520

I turned in on and while setting all up, downloading few things to test it, my poor eyes felt within minutes like squished -.- Really bad eyestrain as I was trying to navigate and figuring out how to switch to AMD graphics... Finally after half an hour and some googling, I have managed to switch and had seriously a millisecond instant relief.

However the laptop is not so good to be honest and because of certain reasons I am thinking of returning it... But then what???

Does anyone has a tip what to buy for us who experience this kind of eyestrain? 😕 Perhaps a laptop with non Intel processor? Sorry Intel but....

And also, just for the sake of playing with it, since it is kind of a test laptop, does anyone has a suggestion which drivers I could try for Intel HD 4400 on my Yoga?

I hope there will be a solution for this in the future because I don't how I am suppose to buy a laptop for work that I so badly need......

[SMohd2]

kevinc1, I have looked at a few laptop models recently (in the store), including the Lenovo 710s Plus. when I looked at its Device Manager, this laptop model seem to have dual graphics card - Intel HD 620 and the GeForce 940MX, at least on the display model at I was looking at:

The photo is a bit dark, probably due to my cell phone camera trying to adjust to the really bright screen, which makes other area in the photo darker that it actually is. If it has dual graphics card, that means it will still use Intel graphics most of the time, only when running certain programs or games will the GeForce kick in. So this model might not solve your problem.

sleeplessoul, I have been searching and trying out new laptop models for the last few years, and so far not been able to find any new laptop that I can use without eye strain. I am putting my hope on Intel to find a solution for this. At least Intel has acknowledged the problem and is doing something about it. Others like AMD and Nvidia, not sure if they are even aware of the problem, let alone working on a solution for it.

[PSobc2]

Hello,

First, sorry for my not perfect English.

I am reading this thread for few mouths because unfortunately I am one of people with this stupid eye strain problem.

As you guys, i tested my problem with different configurations including changing laptops, monitors etc , and strain seems to be caused by Intel HD driver.

I noticed very strange thing...I know how it sounds (but as i read on previous pages your perception of this problem is also strange), but my problem disappears when i plug off AC power...with plugged in my eyes start strain very fast, but with plugged off I can use laptop for hours...i tested on Lenovo T430 and Lenovo T460. Same observations with laptop connected to external monitor - with plugged off AC Power problem disappears, when i plug in something on display changes, screens is starting to be less comfortable for me and after some time eyes start to strain.

Guys affected by this problem - please try to use your laptop with newer Intel driver, but with plugged of AC Power, and then with plugged in and let me know, if it helps - for me - 100% yes, but of course i can not have laptop all the time with plugged off AC Power, so I am searching all the time for other solution.

Tested on Windows and Linux, same observations. I've been trying to check battery profiles with AC Power ON and OFF, i found that in default settings screen refresh rate changes from 60Mhz to 50Mhz after AC power plug off, but i tried with AC Power plug in and set 50Mhz manually, no effect, so i do not think this is problem.

Please test your Intel HD with AC Power plugged in and off, waiting for your observations

Cheers.

[SMohd2]

kracjar20, on my Lenovo Thinkpad T420s, which I can use without eye strain (using the 2011 driver), I have configured the advanced power options to be the same for both On Battery and Plugged In. So for me, plugging and unplugging the AC power adapter does not make any difference to my eye strain situation. I need to configure my laptop this way (set to Maximum Performance under Intel Graphics Power Plan) so that I can get rid of PWM, which also cause eye strain to me.

Do you get eye strain from PWM? The T460 has PWM flickering, what display brightness were you using the laptop when you discovered you can use the laptop for hours plugged off?

On eye strain due to intel graphics driver, I do not know what settings (in the Advance Power Option) that might give less/no eye strain when plugged off, and eye strain when plugged in.

[PSobc2]

@Kray_62

I configured it like you - all power options same on battery and AC power - same effect , on AC power something changes on screen (I can not say what, but it is bit different and after some time causes strain). On battery power no strain...

I have old notebook with PWM and i can use it even on half brightness so i think I am not sensitive of PWM.

Just to be sure, if it is possible, could you (and other people) try to use Intel HD graphic on Intel HD driver (even newest) on battery power only for longer time ? Of course i mean on laptop with causes you strain.

I don't know totally what's going on, but on battery power it does not give me strain...

[SMohd2]

Hi kracjar20...I have a spare Lenovo T420s laptop that has an intel graphics driver released in 2015. I can give it a try to use it on battery. Will need some time to test it though to see if it makes a difference between plugged in vs on battery.

[PSobc2]

Hi again

Ok I am waiting for your results, but not rush, be sure how you feel on AC power compared to battery power with new causing strain Intel HD driver.

Maybe something changed after that drivers from 2011 which causes strain only on AC power...unfortunately i can test your old non-strain causing drivers from Intel HD3000 on HD4000, so waiting for your results

Cheers.

[useno]

Hi everyone, I have been following this thread for almost 3 years and no solution found by Intel. And I dont think they can. I believe they just dont bother for small amount of people. for a long time I have been using the graphic card without driver on windows 10. So I had to use the computer with less performance and with only one monitor which kills my productivity a lot. So I gave up.

Right now I have been planning to buy new laptop which has ATI discrete graphics card. In its specifications it says there is Intel HD Graphics 620 onboard card. Now I am anxious that this card will also cause the eye strain. Do you have any comment on this card/card drivers regarding eye strain ?

Thanks in advance

[PSobc2]

Hi again,

Just entered here to follow new posts and ask you @Kray_62,

Did you test your laptop with eye strain drivers using AC Power / NO AC Power ?

Have you noticed any difference?

Good luck for all in this fight with eye strain

[SMohd2]

Hi kracjar20.

I have tested your theory using my newer Lenovo Thinkpad T420s laptop, the one with the 3 drivers (dated 2011, 2013 and 2015) installed. I used the latest 2015 driver, and used the laptop plugged-in for about 30 minutes, really feeling the strain in my eyes, then I unplugged the cord and use the laptop for another 10 minutes on battery. Honestly, I can't really tell if there is much difference. If there is, it might be small, but it is definitely not a very noticeable difference. It is not like using the 2011 driver where I get no eye strain at all. This was yesterday. I was close to call it inconclusive, but today I decided to give it another go.

Today I tried it again, used the laptop (with the 2015 driver) for another 30 minutes, got the eye strain. Then I stopped, went to the kitchen, went to the bathroom, and and the eye strain still lingers. I can still feel the eye strain even after 10 minutes since I stopped using the laptop. This means my test yesterday may not be accurate. Maybe the reason I could not feel much difference in eye strain when I un-plugged the laptop from the mains is because of the lingering eye strain from when using the laptop plugged-in.

So in order for me to test this accurately, I need to take some time off. Make sure there is no more lingering eye strain. When my eyes are "reset" to normal, then I will try to use the laptop again, this time I would go straight to using the laptop on battery, and see if I get any eye strain or not. Will try this tomorrow, and get back to you.

[SMohd2]

I noticed that different causes of eye strain has different effect on the eyes, for me at least.

For eye strain caused by PWM flickering, the eye strain that I get is very fast. I can feel the eye strain usually within 1-3 minutes of using any display that has PWM. But the thing about PWM eye strain, it comes very fast, but it also goes away very fast. As soon as I look away, I feel relief and my eyes would go back to normal quite fast. This is different then the eye strain from intel graphics driver.

For eye strain caused intel graphics driver, the eye strain is more like a "slow burner". It builds up over time. Sometimes it takes a bit of time before I really feel the eye strain, which is why in previous posts, I mentioned that usually I need at least few days to test it out to confirm the eye strain. Also, I find that eye strain from intel graphics related takes longer to go away after I stop using the laptop. The eye strain sort of lingers a bit longer.

To complicate things more, a laptop may have one or both causes of eye strain, and the person using it may be sensitive to one or both types of eye strain. Hence important to know if a person is sensitive to which causes of eye strain, and to isolate the causes of eye strain for testing purposes.

I am still in the midst of testing the 2015 intel graphics driver using on battery only. Let me try it a few more times before I share my findings here.

[SMohd2]

I switched on the Lenovo T420s laptop with the 2015 intel graphics driver and use it directly on battery. The brightness is at 100%, PWM has been eliminated. I was able to use the laptop for 1 hour plus non-stop without much problem. It is not exactly 100% eye strain-free, but I would say it is very close, definitely very noticiably better than using the same driver when plugged-in. Sometimes during that 1 hour, i fell like zero eye strain at all, I feel absolutely nothing in my eye balls, which is great. But other times I do feel something, not quite pain or strain, but just "something". It doesnt cause discomfort or anything, just not 100% nothing. Nonetheless, it is significantly much better for the eyes. After doing this test a few rounds, I can confirm the result are consistent.

You are right, there is definitely something different on how the graphics is being displayed when plugged-in vs on battery. And my laptop's advanced power option is configured so that everything is on max performance regardless on battery or plugged-in. I think this is a significant find.

This could very well be the (temporary) workaround solution for intel graphics driver related eye strain. We already have the workaround solution for PWM flickering, now we may have the workaround for intel graphics driver as well. To other people here, you might want to give this a try too.

To the intel development team that has the identical Lenovo T420s laptop as me - can you investigate this? Use 2015 intel graphics driver, dont change any of the advance power settings that I have setup in the laptop (so that everything is identical to the one I am using here), and use the laptop on battery, then use it plugged-in. Try and see what has changed, what graphics settings or configuration has changed? Something is causing eye strain when plugged-in. This could be the (or one of the) root cause that we are looking for.

[PSobc2]

I am glad to know that only me have such observations related with eye strain with plugged in laptop...it was really weird and i thought only I have such strange perception.

I just wanna add, for me, it is not just eye strain from nothing after one hour when AC Power is plugged in...the display is less comfortable to look since first minute, eveyrthing seems to be less readable and after about 1 hour eyes start to strain.

So we hope that intel support will use this information to investigate the root cause...and make good drivers for Windows and Linux aswell.

Unfortunately i can not use your work around with 2011 drivers because I have this problem on Lenovo T430 and T460 . 2011 drivers are too old for those laptops, and i have to use Windows Basic Driver (i tried oldest drivers for HD4000, strain aswell).

Now it should be easier because only thing needed to do is check diffrence in driver work between unplugged and plugged mode and remove it.

Cheers

[SMohd2]

Ronald_Intelintel_adminBryce@Intelitpnadmin

I have some suggestions to the Intel development team that is investigating this eye strain issue.

The laptop that I sent to Intel has the exact settings and configurations that I use in my own laptop, which is also another Lenovo Thinkpad T420s laptop. All settings are the same - DPST always off, brightness always at 100% regardless of plugged-in or on battery, no change in font settings. The only thing that is changed is the intel graphics driver. When I use the 2011 intel graphics driver, I get no eye strain whatsoever. But when I use the 2013 graphics driver, I get eye strain.

Since no other things were changed i.e. same hardware, same OS, same settings, the only thing that was changed was the intel graphics driver. So there must be something in the 2013 graphics driver that is causing the eye strain. It could be the way it renders graphics, it could be the introduction of dithering, it could be how it processes the display of fonts. I dont know. But clearly something has been added or changed in the 2013 graphics driver that was not present in the 2011 driver that is causing the eye strain.

To Intel dev team, if I may suggest, there is one sure way of finding the root cause of these eyes strain, which hopefully can lead to finding a solution to this problem once and for all. Here is the way / methodology that I hope intel dev team can implement:

1. Identify the list of things that has been added or changed in the 2013 driver that were not there in the 2011 driver. I'm sure Intel has an archive of all your intel graphics driver changelogs. This would be a good starting point.
2. Once you have identified the list, lets say you have identified 20 new "things" (i.e. 20 changes from the 2011 driver to the 2013 driver), then its time to do some process of elimination. First, is to verify that the root cause of the eye strain is one of these 20 new things. Take out / remove these 20 new things from the 2013 driver. Theoretically that should make the driver be like the 2011 driver, which should not cause the eye strain.
3. Compile/save the driver (with the 20 things removed), let's call this beta-driver1, and send it to me (since I have an identical laptop) for testing. If I dont get eye strain, that confirms that the root cause is one of the 20 items. A good start.
4. We can start to eliminate and remove, say, 5 items from the 20, and save the driver (let's call this beta-driver2) which will have 15 things still in there. Send the beta-driver2 to me for testing. If I find the beta-driver2 give me eye strain, that means the root cause is one of those 15 things that are still in the beta-driver2.
5. Then remove another 5 things from the driver, and save the driver (let's call this beta-driver3), which now only has 10 things in it. Send the beta-driver3 to me for testing. If I get eye strain, that means the cause of the eye strain is one of the 10 things that are there. If I do not get eye strain, that means the cause of the eye strain is one of the 5 items that were removed. We just have to keep doing this process of elimination until we find the thing that causes the eye strain.

To complicate the matters, there might be more than one thing that cause eye strain. E.g. from the 20 things, it could be 3 things that causes eye strain. So when we remove, say 5 items from the driver, it could be 2 of the root cause is part of the 15, and 1 is part of the 5. How to cater for this scenario also need to be taken into account.

The testing of beta-driver1, beta-driver2 etc has to be done by a person who suffers from intel graphics eye strain. Not everybody gets eye strain from intel graphics driver, just like not everyone gets eye strain from PWM flickering. The Intel dev team who is working on this, if you all have normal eye sights and do not get eye strain from PWM and intel graphics driver, firstly be thankful for that. Secondly, you will not be able to test and see if the beta-driver1/2/3/etc causes eye strain or not. Hence need to send the beta-drivers to those who suffers from intel graphics driver for them to test. I am one of them. This thread is over 3 years old and everybody who has posted in this thread also suffers from it too.

I truly believe the solution has to be in the form of a new graphics driver. A graphics driver caused this problem, so it is only logical that another graphics driver is needed to solve this. I look forward to test any beta-graphics driver from Intel, or any other potential solutions as well.

[PSobc2]

Kray_62

Good points from your side.

But i think you forgot to add:

To compare what option/buffering/rendendering method is enabled after plug in AC power - it can directly cause strain.

[MJana1]

Hello,

I have tried the older drivers mention on page 7, but they do not work on my laptop (dell xps 15 9560, i7-7700HQ, intel HD 630). Are there please some older drivers for this that I could try for the eyestrain? My current version of the intel graphics driver is 21.20.16.4664 and it does cause eyestrain.

Thank you

[PSobc2]

I am afraid you have same problem as me - mentioned Intel HD drivers no strain causing are only for Intel HD 3000 (and maybe older) models, not for newer ones. On my one level higher Intel HD 4000 they are not working aswell.

@MartinAnanas, could you try to use your laptop without AC power for some time?

We discovered that it almost removes strain on this new problematic drivers, and I am curios of other people observations.

Same proposition to other people from this thread fighting with this problem, try to use your laptop without AC Power for some time and share with us your observations here.

[MJana1]

Hello,

Please could you explain why that should help? Or is it only experimental result of some people?

I have actually found out an interesting thing here related directly to my device - http://xps-15.wikia.com/wiki/Restricted/Randomly_Fluctuating_Brightness_Levels Restricted/Randomly Fluctuating Brightness Levels | XPS 15 Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia

Ive tried turning everything off and it seems to be better, however I need more time for testing.

[MJana1]

Unfortunately no improvement there with the Intel driver settings change.

[SMohd2]

@ MartinAnanas

You mentioned no improvement. Are you referring to the solution in the link you highlighted above, which is on the Display Power Saving Technology? I have the display power saving switched off too, and still get eye strain. So I dont think this is the cause.

Do you get eye strain from PWM? Dell laptops are known to have PWMs, that could be the reason why you get eye strain. If you do not get eye strain from PWM, that means the intel graphics driver is causing you eye strain. In which case, I suggest you give kracjar20's suggestion a try. Just use your laptop normally, but unplugged, using battery. It would be best to try this before you get any eye strain, for example, when you wake up in the morning or when you first use the laptop. The reason is that if you use the laptop like you normally use first, that means your eye will already feel the strain, and if you try to use the laptop unplugged and on battery in this condition, you might still be feeling residual eye strain from before.

I'm curious to know if other people also feel relief from eye strain by using their laptop on battery.