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NUC10i7FNH hdmi audio device reverts to stereo

wheezil
Beginner
843 Views

I have a new NUC10i7FNH with Windows 10, and making 5.1 audio work with the HDMI output is giving me fits.  Originally, I connected the NUC to a TV, and it set up the audio as "stereo".  Even after connecting the NUC to a Denon AVR, the sound systray showed 5.1 and 7.1 options disabled and insisted that the device was "Samsung TV".  I tried uninstalling the device and letting it be rediscovered, but it always came back as Samsung TV, even though I was connected to the Denon.  Finally I reset Windows 10 to factory, let is reinstall everything, and it came back with the audio device as "Denon".  Yay!  This worked for a while, but for some reason it reverted to "Samsung TV" again, and only plays stereo.  Once again, removing the device makes no difference -- it always comes back as "Samsung TV".  Is there any way to force the driver to believe that 5.1 audio is supported?

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n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
682 Views

The occurrence of the black screens, which are caused by a connection interrupt, are caused by (IMHO) bugs in the Intel driver. This has been demonstrated by users also running Linux, who do not see this issue -- and, in fact, can even go to higher resolutions without seeing the issue. Why this issue appears to be fixed in one driver release and seems to come back in the next, is not something that I understand -- but it sure is frustrating!

That you see this occurring more often in a connection to (through) the AVR is likely because of the effects of the AVR passthrough on the connection between the NUC and the TV. I do not see this issue, but I think this is because I am using an older generation NUC and a DisplayPort connection (and DP-to-HDMI adapter) as opposed to direct HDMI connection -- which brings up the question (since I do not remember): if you use the USB-C connection (and DP-to-HDMI adapter/cable), do you see the same issues?

...S

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15 Replies
Maria_R_Intel
Moderator
821 Views

Hello wheezil,


Thank you for posting on the Intel* Community.


To better assist you, please provide us with the below information:


  • Is the Denon device connected using HDMI* to HDMI* (straight connection)?


Provide the Intel® System Support Utility (Intel® SSU) report:

 



Best regards,

Maria R.

Intel Customer Support Technician


wheezil
Beginner
815 Views

Maria, thanks for your reply!

>> is the Denon device connected using HDMI* to HDMI* (straight connection)?

I've had this configured two ways:

* PC -> HDMI -> Denon -> HDMI -> TV

* PC -> HDMI -> AudioSplitter -> { HDMI -> TV, SPDIF -> Denon }

In the first configuration, the Denon is stripping the audio for its own use, and sending the video to the TV.

In the second configuration, the splitter is a https://amzn.to/2KuKxJ6 with its audio switch set to "5.1".

The PC is currently connected in the first configuration.  That is how it was when I ran the SSU.  It's output is attached.  And... the sound is back to being targeted for the Denon!  Hmmmmm.  I did not expect that.  When I was working with Samsung support, they had me change the TV sound output from "speakers" to "optical out" (the optical out doesn't actually go anywhere), could that have made the difference?

Meanwhile, I've been trying to solve another issue.  The whole reason that I have that splitter, is that the PC-Denon-Samsung EDID negotiation seems fragile.  When I use the PC for netflix or other video site, I often get multi-second black screens and occasionally the dread "no signal" on the TV.  The splitter makes this considerably better.  Denon support basically said "the TV and PC need to work this out".  Samsung said "you need to run HDMI straight from PC to TV and use optical AVR out for the Denon" (which defeats the Denon's HDMI input switching).  It is of course rather frustrating with all this finger-pointing.  Can anything be done on the NUC to improve this matter, like hardwire its EDID expectation so it doesn't renegotiate?

Thanks!

john

Maria_R_Intel
Moderator
803 Views

Hello wheezil,


Thank you for the information.


With the report, I noticed that your system is not updated. Let's try some steps that may help you with the issue and if persists I will proceed to check about the EDID and let you know more info about it.


-BIOS:

 

According to the report you are using the BIOS version 0032, the latest version available on our website is 0047.

  1. Go to the following link to find version 0047. https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/30073?product=188811
  2. We recommend downloading the cap version.
  3. You can find all the steps to follow under Download documentation, in the document "read me", follow the "F7 BIOS Update Instructions" https://downloadmirror.intel.com/30073/eng/NUC-AptioV-BIOS-Update-Readme.pdf


Update the HDMI Firmware


 

DRIVERS:

 

I recommend you using the Intel® DSA tool, The Intel® Driver & Support Assistant keeps your system up-to-date by providing tailored support and hassle-free updates for most of your Intel hardware.

  1. Download the Intel® DSA tool.
  2. Scan your system to find the most updated drivers.
  3. Perform the necessary updates, but we do not recommend to use this tool to perform the BIOS update.



  • Check your TV and AV receiver manufacturer websites to see if there are firmware updates available for them.


 

Please once you finish with the updates provide me a new report using the Intel® System Support Utility report in .txt format (once the scan is done, click the menu where it says Summary View to change to Detailed View, click Next, and click Save. 


Best regards,

Maria R.

Intel Customer Support Technician


Maria_R_Intel
Moderator
785 Views

Hello wheezil,


Were you able to check the previous post?

 

Let me know if you need more assistance.

 

Best regards, 

Maria R.  

Intel Customer Support Technician 


wheezil
Beginner
769 Views

Maria,

Thanks again.  I was able to install the BIOS update (which didn't help) and the HDMI firmware update (which did help).  It seems to have reduced the "black screen" events by about 75% and I have not yet seen a "no signal" event.  So it is definitely better!  But I still seen to get a black screen when exiting Chrome.  I am going to try Samsung's recommendation, which is to connect the NUC directly to TV and run an optical return to the AVR.  Currently awaiting said optical cable, I will post an update when I install it.

Thanks

john

n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
766 Views

If you connect the NUC directly to the TV, you are almost assured of being stuck with Stereo. How many TVs have you ever seen that support 5.x/7.x?

Just saying,

...S

wheezil
Beginner
758 Views
Scott that is certainly a valid concern, but when the NUC was refusing to offer 5.1 option, the thing that may have fixed it was changing the tv sound setting from speakers to AVR return. I believe the samsung may change its edid to reflect the optical output supporting more channels. I will find out soon. At this point I am more keen to fix the second problem of "black screen" happening when the PC (apparently) changes modes or requeries the edid, I really don't know what is up with that.
John
n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
752 Views

I agree that the Black Screen should be the priority.

I am still interested in the other issue as I believe that the PC -> AVR -> TV is the clean and proper way to connect the equipment. I don't understand the EDID issue. The received should consistently identify itself properly, presenting its audio capabilities and the downstream TV's video capabilities.

**bleep**, as I thought through the wording of that last sentence, I realized what is happening. If you attempt to use the PC while the receiver is turned off, some (like my Onkyo TX-NR575) simply refuse to support the signal pass-thru. Others will support the pass-thru - and suddenly, you are seeing the full EDID of the TV! If you think about it, this can happen accidently pretty darn often. I am benefiting by not seeing your issue because my receiver is not doing what it is supposed to do. Arrrrggggg!

...S

wheezil
Beginner
746 Views

Scott,

I am learning that the HDMI/EDID protocols are either immature, poorly specified, poorly implemented or all of the above.  The first thing I had to contend with was that the TV wanted to be the center of the universe, and kept trying to "recognize" the PC input, so that it could do something very clever with its unifying remote.  This always failed, but only after spending about 30 seconds trying.  I finally found a "cheat code" for the TV that disabled this miserable behavior.  The black screen behavior is kind of downhill from that, I believe perhaps a secondary manifestation of the same issue.  Unfortunately I've found that putting the AVR in the chain makes the black screen incidents far worse.  At this point, I have three fairly expensive components, all of which seem to be contributing to the issue in some way, and determining exactly why is frustrating.  How does one diagnose this kind of stuff exactly?  By swapping in alternate components?  Not like I've got those laying about for test.  Fortunately, having bought everything in Amazon's Christmas window, I have until Jan 31 to give up and send it all back, and buy a fire-pit, or a bicycle or a case of wine instead, all of which are less likely to give me a panic attack.

n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
730 Views

These protocols are well defined and, in most case, well implemented. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for the Intel drivers. The issue that you are seeing - and taking my pass-thru example into account - is a sure indicator that the driver is getting stuck on specific EDIDs and not dynamically adjusting as they should.

It's too bad; the most compelling usage model for the NUC is as a HTPC but they don't do well here because the iGFX driver team is constantly letting them down. 

...S

wheezil
Beginner
691 Views

Thanks again for your time and efforts @n_scott_pearson and @Maria_R_Intel .

Unfortunately, I've now tried just about everything I can think of including all of your suggestions.  When the HDMI connection topology is set to route through the AVR as it should be done, the blackscreen events are quite pronounced and occasional "no signal" happens.  When I directly connect the NUC to TV and connect audio using optical ARC, the blackscreen evens are lessened, but output is limited to stereo again.  At this point I am considering returning every component in the system and starting anew while my return window is still available.  Short of that nuclear option, is there anything else I can try?

Thanks

john

n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
683 Views

The occurrence of the black screens, which are caused by a connection interrupt, are caused by (IMHO) bugs in the Intel driver. This has been demonstrated by users also running Linux, who do not see this issue -- and, in fact, can even go to higher resolutions without seeing the issue. Why this issue appears to be fixed in one driver release and seems to come back in the next, is not something that I understand -- but it sure is frustrating!

That you see this occurring more often in a connection to (through) the AVR is likely because of the effects of the AVR passthrough on the connection between the NUC and the TV. I do not see this issue, but I think this is because I am using an older generation NUC and a DisplayPort connection (and DP-to-HDMI adapter) as opposed to direct HDMI connection -- which brings up the question (since I do not remember): if you use the USB-C connection (and DP-to-HDMI adapter/cable), do you see the same issues?

...S

View solution in original post

wheezil
Beginner
679 Views

@n_scott_pearson  thanks for the suggestion.  It is certainly worth giving that a try before returning the PC.

john

wheezil
Beginner
659 Views

@n_scott_pearson The USB-C to HDMI adapter works just fine.  Thanks for the suggestion!

Sure would be nice if Intel got their HDMI driver act together, would have saved me a lot of aggravation.  I've gone through several topologies, HDMI splitters, etc and nothing else worked.

john

n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
656 Views

That's good!

It is only with the 10th gen processors that Intel is finally (many years late AFAIK) getting HDMI support to where it should be. Intel's multi-year pipeline is against them from this perspective; they have never been able to pivot easily if things change. Having to either stick with lowly HDMI 1.4 support or have an LSPcon IC in the circuit (and fight the firmware issues) is not a good answer. The NUCs are great products - until you start talking about the crappy drivers and crappy driver support - and then the NUCs get dragged down and can even become irrelevant, which is too bad. The primary usage model for most is HTPC and they aren't very good at that because of the drivers - or the poor HDMI support.

...S

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