ModelSim-Altera vs. ModelSim DE Plus: Help choosing a simulator

[Altera_Forum]

Hello, I have been using the free ModelSim-Altera Starter Edition for a while and am thinking about upgrading to either ModelSiim-Altera or ModelSim DE Plus. ModelSim DE is significantly more expensive than ModelSim-Altera. Also, DE supports Assertions while ModelSim-Altera does not. I would like to hear from people about the differences between these two flavors and is DE really worth its price. Is DE faster than ModelSim-Altera? 

 Thanks, joe

[Altera_Forum]

Hi Joe: 

 I have done a performance evaluation between Modelsim-Altera Starter Edition, Modelsim DE and Riviera-Pro LV and Riviera-Pro LVT  I did not do an evaluation of Modelsim-Altera (non starter edition), but my understanding is it's performance less than Modelsim-DE.  Price: (low to highest)  Modelsim-ASE is free, can't beat that, but it is SLOW.  Modelsim-AE costs, but is pretty reasonable.   Riviera-Pro LV is next, but doesn't have code coverage standard. 32-bit memory limitation but has simulink standard  Riviera-Pro LVT is a 64-bit equivalent version from Aldec Slightly faster the LVT. I didn't test LVT-SV (More standard options)  Modelsim-DE Has code coverage standard   Speed (Low to highest)  Modelsim-ASE (This guy is slow..)  Modelsim-AE ???   Modelsim-DE (much faster than ASE)  Riviera-Pro LV (much faster than DE)  Riviera-Pro LVT (slightly faster than LV, Not worth the upgrade for speed alone)  Language support  Modelsim-ASE single language only  Modelsim-AE single language only ? (Haven't really looked)  Modelsim-DE Can have dual language, costs 2x single language license  Riviera-Pro Can have dual language, costs 2x single language license  Industry support. Modelsim has this one.. Scripts can be compatible between all Modelsim versions. Not sure between Modelsim and Questa anymore.   We ended up going with Riviera-Pro LV for our internal simulator due to cost and performance. We use Modelsim-DE with some customers due to ASIC work.   If you are heavy into ASIC's then use what the ASIC vendor supports. (Probably one of the big 3)  Riviera-Pro supports scripting like Modelsim, using very similar scripts, but not identical. So if you are going back and forth it's a conversion process. They have a converter, but it doesn't work with more advanced features.  If you want to learn more, here's the feature set. http://www.aldec.com/en/products/functional_verification/riviera-pro/configuration  They also have a FPGA class simulator Active-HDL. Cheaper, but is windows only. We used this for several years. More on par with DE in terms of speed. Nice integration with Quartus if that's your thing, but a little less flexible in project generation.  Lack of Linux support finally killed this for us.  Other simulators to consider for ASIC flows. Synopsys VCS, and Cadence Incisive, Mentor Questa, but these cost big money. I have used VCS and the previous generations of Incisive and Questa, They work, and are well supported by most ASIC flows.  Regards,  Pete

[Altera_Forum]

Pete, 

 Hi, thank you very much for your comments. In our small qroup we basically use Altera FPGA's and simple simulations. I've read Spear's book, "SystemVerilog for Verification" and was excited about improving my verfication and testing skills and wanted to learn and use Assertions. But, the cost of the tool to support Assertions is beyond our budget. I would like to move beyond just looking at my waveforms during my verification/ testing phase but I guess I'm stuck with Modelsim-ASE or Modelsim-AE. Quick question, do you know if ModelSim-Altera has Code Coverage?   Thanks, joe

[Altera_Forum]

Hi Joe: 

 I don't believe so. I didn't see any thing about it.  It just removes the 10k line limit, but still has a 3k instantiation limit from what I can see.. And based on their metrics is a little faster the ASE.  http://www.altera.com/products/software/quartus-ii/modelsim/qts-modelsim-index.html?gsa_pos=3&wt.oss_r=1&wt.oss=modelsim-altera%20edition  I know coverage use to be an add-on for Mentor SE/PE, but with DE they threw it in.  All seem to have some system verilog support, but for full assertion support, you pretty much need either and add-on license, or higher end version.  They are all too expensive, in my humble opinion, and I hate how they nickle and dime you on features. AE wasn't really an option for us, since we need to do both Altera and Xilinx designs depending on our customers.  Pete

[Altera_Forum]

One quick note, if you ever do get Modelsim-DE 

 Buy floating license, but make sure to get more waveform viewer licenses than simulator licenses (3 guys can use one simulator license most of the time)  (They don't advertise this, but will do it.) To start Modelsim without globbing a simulator license, you need to start it with vsim -lic_no_lnl option  Most of the time you are looking at waveforms. use the waveform license to do this, and run your actual simulations in batch mode. If you simulate from graphics mode, you hold the simulation license the entire time you have modelsim open.  Pete