Good evening.
There is a commonality to the problems people are facing and if you have experienced these errors logged in Windows Event Viewer WHEA Logger please chime in.
If your processor is unstable and you experience crashes compiling shaders in Unreal Engine titles or other games please check to see if you are experiencing or have logged errors for the following
To make things easier to navigate
Open Event Viewer
Right click on Custom View and select "Create Custom View"
Then, change the setting from "by log" to "by source" and select WHEA Logger from the pulldown.
Click OK and then give your custom view a name and a description and click OK.
You can now look under Custom Views to see only WHEA errors.
Look for chain errors like this especially where rapid-fire errors occur. However any errors are bad. This is somewhat mitigated by the 0x125 microcode and Intels power settings and if you've kicked these errors before you can try inducing them again by trying to raise your PL1/PL2. It should start failing again.
Look for the following,
- Translation Lookaside Buffer Errors
- Cache Hierarchy Errors
- Internal Parity Errors
If so, is the APIC ID involved one of these, but most likely a combination or all of them?
- APIC ID 48
- APIC ID 40
- APIC ID 16
Then please chime in.
If you are experiencing Event ID 17 for PCIE Root, or the above errors on different APIC IDs, please state so. That information is also relevant.
This commonality has existed since the launch of Raptor Lake and you can find people experiencing issues that are extremely familiar that are having the above errors on this very forum going back to things like January of 2023.
This is one of many, many, many posts of people who have been having these issues and it's certainly not the oldest.
In that thread posted January 14th 2023, the user specified they were experiencing issues with their 13900K, they erroneously believed it was due to XMP, and while setting XMP can trigger a different defect in the Raptor Lake processors where the system will hard lock at automatic SA voltages under load it wasn't what was causing his issues.
Disabling XMP and performing an undervolt stabilized his system, sort of and without follow-up it's impossible to know if the undervolt was done correctly but APIC 16 and APIC 40 are on the field.
Nine days later in that thread, on January 23rd 2023 another user posts that they are having a similar issue.
"FYI I have the near identical scenario. Built my 13900k machine shortly after it was launched with 4090, DDR5 7200, etc... 48 hours ago I started experiencing a couple of random app crashes and 2 BSOD's. My event viewer is full of hundreds of WHEA Logger Error 19's."
Then, in October of 2023, a Linux user experiencing failures that can be traced back to a specific core chimed in on that thread. That user systematically disabled cores until they found the faulty one and disabled it.
This was the same "fix" performed by another user like me who had a 14th gen with this issue out of the box. It was from that I realized that multiple users on the same forum I was on had the same issues, with the same APIC IDs.
Here is a post from r/Intel on Reddit, going back to the spring/summer of 2023.
The title "13900k will no longer run DX12 games (crashing/CTDs) at PCore 55x - why?"
I recently saw my rig become badly unstable in DX12 games, when running the 13900k CPU at PCore 55x. Attempts to start games would either throw "out of video memory trying to allocate a rendering resource", or plain CTD with faulting applications. This affected every DX12 game I had but nothing that ran DX11.
Reducing PCore to 52x fixed all the problems.
Here is the same story again, this user erroneously believed that the error was caused by ILM bending, much like the previous user thought XMP must be the culprit. Intels silence at work. ILM bending is very much a thing but not here.
Again, a commonality being to try and ease the problem one must effectively neuter their CPUs performance.
That user replaced their motherboard and CPU on 07/23, and all was well. Except it wasn't. With a new CPU he reported the following.
"Issues are returning. Fortnite has again become unstable, this time CTDs when in-game, with the Fortnite Log reporting "Could not decompress shader group with Oodle", again going around the loop to being a shader-related issue. Also, Event Viewer is now starting to log "Error Type: Internal parity error Processor APIC ID: 48"."
A CPU fault was confirmed by the supplier. You may also remember Oodle being mentioned in the reports that have come out from Level 1, GN etc. The amount of people who have replaced one failed processor with another is too high to ignore, I am one of them.
The internet is full of posts of people asking for help with this issue and being ignored, usually on an Intel forum of some kind. You need only to search for the specific APIC IDs to start bringing up very, very, similar issues that people attributed to all sorts of different causes but eventually circled back to defective cores or silicon that is not performant.
These posts were picked because they came up first on Google, you can find users experiencing these issues in all sorts of forums. The APIC IDs involved staying nearly always the same. APIC IDs are tied to cores, the fact that this is occurring on the same ones at a rate that outpaces all others is a major red flag.
The only "fix" for this issue, that exists among other issues known of Raptor Lake, is to limit the performance of the CPU straight out of the box, or disable the malfunctioning core if its the same APIC ID tied to throwing errors as others have found out. How long the first method works I do not know. There's a group of us who have this same issue and it's all comparing notes.
Either way, the CPUs will never be what Intel sold them as.
One other commonality beyond the same errors, with the same APIC IDs, is Intels silence and inaction. The impact on users who have spent money trying to fix this issue with one hand tied behind their back is probably quite large, not as large I imagine as the businesses both big and small that have endured loss or other damages or hell, even outright blame by Intel.
So yeah, if you end up having these issues listed above with the same APIC IDs, chime in and get an RMA done.
***
Addendum:
I would like to clarify that this neither proves not disproves anything and I believe people are drawing conclusions due to my lack of clarity. I touched on it when I mentioned the bug/defect with SA voltages causing hard locks, which is a different problem.
So for the sake of clarity:
There are multiple issues with Raptor Lake processors. Not having, or having errors in WHEA Logger will not clear or condemn your CPU from this indication alone. I believe they are all defective in some manner or another. I mentioned the SA defect/bug above. I would like to direct you to this thread
https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/XTU-14900k-Crashing-on-Stress-testing/m-p/1618163
In this thread a customer by the name of WillWebster posted with the title
"XTU 14900k Crashing on Stress testing"
Based on a simple description of the problem in that his system locks up and freezes, no reboot and no error I knew exactly what the issue was and how to mitigate it.
"@Eisbar Hey pal. Wow thats crazy! Exactly as you said. "
The key takeaway in my response is this in the final message I left for this user.
"With computers there's so many variables that it's very rare that someone can just bop into your thread, tell you exactly the problem and how to "fix" it. However this problem is so prevalent that it sticks out like a sore thumb and Intel would be lying through their teeth to say they're not aware of it. "
The odds of posting online saying your computer is crashing and having somebody say "Oh, change this and it will work" with no crash logs, no information other than the behaviour of the crash and the processor involved is so insanely slim, unless it's so common others can spot it a mile away just by seeing the processor involved. If this person had an AMD, or an ARM processor of some kind. I'd have no clue without further information.
I know of this issue, because my processor has this issue, and I was told by others who had this issue when I went looking for answers. It is because of others who have themselves been afflicted by Intel that I could communicate with this user.
Intel does not acknowledge this other issue. However this one I believe may factually be a problem between Intel and motherboard manufacturers as the way SA voltage is raised and lowered is apparently different on 14th Gen processors.
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