EP330PC-15 information needed

[Altera_Forum]

Ok, trying to repair an old ISA board that has an EP330PC-15 on it. I'd appreciate any information about this device.Yes, kinda old( 20 years) but this is alegacy device that must be maintained. 

Altera website came up empty.. Thanks Jay

[Altera_Forum]

Ouch... This guy was obsoleted in 1996. 

 It's a apparently a simple EPLD/PAL. I found some apparent devices available from "Grey Market" sources.. But you would still need to know how it was programmed.  If it's an ISA bus card, it was probably used as an address decoder..  If this is something that must be maintained for any period of time, I would highly recommend sending the entire system to someone for reverse engineering.. Because likely most of the components in the system are now obsolete.  Pete

[Altera_Forum]

I appreciate the quick reply.  

Any chance you have the pinout ? It's tied into an Intel 8344AH on the card and while I could reverse engineer it, having the pinout would kinda help. Google didn't seem to know what it was !

[Altera_Forum]

Best to try to contact Altera's support and ask for the datasheet.

[Altera_Forum]

Yeah, I tried but don't think anyone's willing to dust off a databook that old to email me the pinout...... 

..crazy thing is I know there's at least 500+ systems with these cards still in use !

[Altera_Forum]

That's not very nice customer support... 

 For a device of that vintage, a few conventions MIGHT hold true: - Pin 10 is GND and pin 20 is VCC. - The array inputs are in one side of the package, while the outputs are on the other side. - There is a programming pin somewhere, arround to pin 1, 10, 11 or 20.

[Altera_Forum]

I remember that all HILO programmers (e.g. ALL-03, ALL-07) have been supporting EP330 and similar Altera devices.

[Altera_Forum]

The closest datasheet I could find was for the EP320. (Same family, but different device). 

 I Don't work for Altera however. I'm sure they have it in an old databook somewhere.  Attached is a PDF for the EP320 with a 20 pin pinout. I would assume the EP330 has a similar pinout, but I could be wrong.   However since they are all just Clocks/Input or IO, the actual functionality you would still have to reverse engineer.  Pete

[Altera_Forum]

Thanks Pete for the data...at least it's a start. It'd be nice to get the real info though.I've been 'stung' by similar devices only to find out the Enable pin have been inverted. That was a real head scratcher! 

I've got most of the rev-eng done but coming up with what's 'inside' ther EP330PC-15 will be the big challenge.   I'm kinda surprised Google didn't find it......oh well, the quest continues as I may have 500 piece to upgrade.

[Altera_Forum]

In many cases, a PALCE16V8 should be able to replace the EP330 device, but there are some restrictions with output feedback, that's only available for 6 of 8 macro cells.

[Altera_Forum]

Well it's a damn site friendlier and more forthcoming with information about Altera products than anyone in Altera is. I still haven't seen anything from Altera about this chip and need to find a replacement ASAP.According to info posted here,it's 20 year lifespan is almost up. I've got 500 units to 'upgrade' at $1,500 per unit. You do the math and you'll see why I'm not happy about the level of 'support' I've gotten so far.

[Altera_Forum]

You didn't yet tell about the exact nature of the intended maintenance respectively upgrade. 

- replacement of defective parts - rebuild the original board - redesign the board with a functional equivalent logic device  Do you have a binary (*.jed are whatsover) programming file, or are you able to readout the original programming, knowing that the security bit isn't set? Or do you have A+PLUS project files?  Without some of this data, even original EP330 devices won't help much.

[Altera_Forum]

The quest is to replace the 'end-of-life' EP330s with new chips.It should simply involve desoldering the existing chips and replacing them with new ones(or equals) that have the same 'program' in them. 

 IF I had the pinout of the EP330 at least I'd KNOW which are inputs and outputs...it'd be a start. Since it's a 20 year old chip it can't be that complicated! I've thought about using a simple breadboard to toggle inputs and observe the outputs...once I have the pinout... I do know that pin 2..9 are tied low,pin 1 has a 12MHz clock to it, and 11,13..16 go 'somewhere'..at least there's scope 'action'.   I do not have ANY information aside from what I've decoded in a quick rev-eng session to see what it's connected to.Can't 'read' it if security has been set so my 'breadboard' test should give me what I need to know...once I know the pinout..   I'm beginning to figure out I should NOT have tossed out an entire wall of databooks a couple of years ago. I know I had Atera books....sigh..   It's looking like I have to rev-eng the EP330 which should take less than a month or two if all goes well.I could speed that up by 1/2 if I had the pinout.Sure hate to lose the contract as originally I'd thought maybe 1 month to do the whole job.Great coins to time ratio.....

[Altera_Forum]

As far as I remember, EP330 has basically the same pin structure as EP320 (and also the popular 20 pin GAL/PALCE devices, as I already mentioned). That means, pin 12 to 19 are optional bidirectional pins. Pin 1 is a dedicated clock 2 to 9 and 11 are inputs.  

 There's a fair chance that PALCE16V8, that is still available, can be used as a pin compatible replacement.

[Altera_Forum]

thanks for the info. I downloaded the 320 info, maybe the 330 is a 'windowless' equal to the 320 ? 

 Jay