Re: DXVA specifications for G45 chipset? - Page 2

casimir666 · ‎09-15-2008

Hello,

I'm one of the authors of "Media Player Classic - Homecinema" (http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpc-hc/). This open source playeralready supportDXVA bitstream decodingwith ATI and nVidia graphics cards.

We plan to add support for Intel G45, but we have to following problem : standard Gui for H264 bitstream decoder (DXVA2_ModeH264_E and DXVA2_ModeH264_F) didn't seems to be implemented on G45. Furthermore, calls to function GetDecoderDeviceGuids on interface IDirectXVideoDecoderService return 2 Gui that did not appears in Microsoft DXVA specifications : BCC5DB6D-A2B6-4AF0-ACE4-ADB1F787BC89 and 604F8E68-4951-4C54-88FE-ABD25C15B3D6. I guess one of the is for VC1, and the other for H264 bitstream decoder.

So my question is :does Intel use a specific protocol for bitstream decoder, and if so is it possible to have the specifications?

Thanks

Casimir

alex-domoq · ‎12-03-2008

Hi Agree with you it's a real shame Intel doesn't publish SW Interface to usethe HWit produces. For me this is the most strange thing I haveever met on the IT market, anyway this is confirmed.

You canhave HW acceleration in Vista only buying ArcSoft TMT ($70) or CyberLink PDVD8 ($90). They provide an accelerated codec you can use in any application (included MPC - Home Cinema and Vista Media Center).

I'm thinking there is a side agreement between Intel and this SW vendor....

Bye,

Alex

gracianobf · ‎12-05-2008

Quoting - alex-domoq

You canhave HW acceleration in Vista only buying ArcSoft TMT ($70) or CyberLink PDVD8 ($90). They provide an accelerated codec you can use in any application (included MPC - Home Cinema and Vista Media Center).

I'm thinking there is a side agreement between Intel and this SW vendor....

Bye,

Alex

Yeah, I could try that, but I won't. If I had known this would happen I would prefer to spend a little more on a laptop with dedicated graphics. I mean, when I was searching for laptops I saw some that were about $150/$200 more than the one I got, but they had better general specs, not just dedicated graphics. Spending $80 on a software video player now kinda defeats the whole purpose of having chosen this one.

P.S.: this reply seems like I'm a bit angry at you, Alex. That's not the case. I appreciate the suggestions, but I usually hate commercial video players of the likes of WinDVD and PowerDVD. I don't know ArcSoft TMT, but I'm gonna check if there's any trial available.

Bye,

Graciano

evergreen97 · ‎12-12-2008

Quoting - alex-domoq

As an OEM and a channel program partner I have open a support case.
It's now closed with this response: It's confirmed INTEL doesn't and won't support G45 HW Acceleration (of any type) on Windows XP.
This is a real shame since we will have plannedbuilding more than 5.000 htpc for every year, mean $100 * 5.000 = $500.000 lost for Intel Business. This is a drop in the sea of Intel Business, but adding this to many other OEM going to NVIDIA or AMD chipset, could be an interesting lost of business.
Anyway good to know we have to change m/b in our stage of designing. Very good and quick work from the support. I'm very satisfied with them, not satisfiedat all from the productdevelopment side.

I'm not sure who is actually speaking for Intel in this forum...

Could an Intel person please confirm the statement from alex-domoq: "It's now closed with this response: It's confirmed INTEL doesn't and won't support G45 HW Acceleration (of any type) on Windows XP."

evergreen97 · ‎12-16-2008

Bump....Intel, anybody home?

Steve_P_Intel · ‎12-30-2008

Quoting - evergreen97

Bump....Intel, anybody home?

Hi folks,

Unfortunately, this is one of those issues that is taking a bit of grinding to reach a resolution. Keep posted!

- Pitz

evergreen97 · ‎01-12-2009

Quoting - Steve Pitzel (Intel)

Hi folks,

Unfortunately, this is one of those issues that is taking a bit of grinding to reach a resolution. Keep posted!

- Pitz

Understood - any ETA?

james123123 · ‎01-25-2009

I have an Intel G45 and Core2 CPU I purchased for my media center, I'd like to know how who I can contact at Intel to express my displeasure regarding this deliberate and misleading advertising to state the chipset's ability to render high definition content artificially limited to not function with an OS that is still in widespread use.

I have no care or interest for HDCP, only hardware decoding of x/h264 content over the HDMI, the reason I bought this capable, yet intentionally crippled product.

Thanks.

Eric_S_Intel · ‎01-26-2009

Quoting - casimir666

Hello,

I'm one of the authors of "Media Player Classic - Homecinema" (http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpc-hc/). This open source playeralready supportDXVA bitstream decodingwith ATI and nVidia graphics cards.

We plan to add support for Intel G45, but we have to following problem : standard Gui for H264 bitstream decoder (DXVA2_ModeH264_E and DXVA2_ModeH264_F) didn't seems to be implemented on G45. Furthermore, calls to function GetDecoderDeviceGuids on interface IDirectXVideoDecoderService return 2 Gui that did not appears in Microsoft DXVA specifications : BCC5DB6D-A2B6-4AF0-ACE4-ADB1F787BC89 and 604F8E68-4951-4C54-88FE-ABD25C15B3D6. I guess one of the is for VC1, and the other for H264 bitstream decoder.

So my question is :does Intel use a specific protocol for bitstream decoder, and if so is it possible to have the specifications?

Thanks

Casimir

Hello All,

My name is Eric, and I'll be picking up this issue. Our goal is to make the h264 interface available - but its a little more work then just posting the correct GUID. I'll be posting a whitepaper describing the interface in the next (hopefully two) weeks. Thanks for your patience.

Eric

james123123 · ‎01-27-2009

Eric, I'd like to thank you for noticing the thread. Honestly, I didn't expect anybody at Intel to listen (or care) to the little guy/end consumer who is suffering from this maligned marketing and technology issue.

casimir666 · ‎01-28-2009

Quoting - Eric Sardella (Intel)

Hello All,

My name is Eric, and I'll be picking up this issue. Our goal is to make the h264 interface available - but its a little more work then just posting the correct GUID. I'll be posting a whitepaper describing the interface in the next (hopefully two) weeks. Thanks for your patience.

Eric

Hello Eric,
That is a good news :-)
Will you post the VC1 and Mpeg2 interface too?

Thanks

zzricezz · ‎01-29-2009

Quoting - Eric Sardella (Intel)

Hello All,

My name is Eric, and I'll be picking up this issue. Our goal is to make the h264 interface available - but its a little more work then just posting the correct GUID. I'll be posting a whitepaper describing the interface in the next (hopefully two) weeks. Thanks for your patience.

Eric

Good thing I took an extra look at this thread again. I was going to return my HP Laptop with the 4500MHD video card.
Now I'm keeping this laptop because of what you stated I really up you guys aren't going to back away from it.

delacy__david · ‎02-04-2009

h264 is supported intel supports 2 guids i think the problem was the players them selves getting their act together

Aaron_B_Intel · ‎02-04-2009

Nah. Intel IGP has some specific requirements which have so far only been available underNDA but which Eric is evidently going to specify so that open source or other developers have access.

delacy__david · ‎02-05-2009

Quoting - Aaron Brezenski (Intel)

Nah. Intel IGP has some specific requirements which have so far only been available underNDA but which Eric is evidently going to specify so that open source or other developers have access.

nah
eric will provide the 2 guids for it
maybe under nda?

what does linux use instead of guids i forget
im such a retard sometimes
have fun!!!

Aaron_B_Intel · ‎02-05-2009

Ha!

The GUIDs are already available by a DXVA query. It's more complicated than just that. It's okay, it will all be obvious Real Soon Now.

Eric_S_Intel · ‎02-10-2009

Quoting - Aaron Brezenski (Intel)

Ha!

The GUIDs are already available by a DXVA query. It's more complicated than just that. It's okay, it will all be obvious Real Soon Now.

Hi All.. Yeah, its close. Casimir666 - can you contact me (eric.sardella@intel.com). I need some help getting it to work with MPC. I tried to email you, but got no response. When I get MPC working, then I'll post the whitepaper. I just need to make sure its working first. It shouldnt be verymuch heavy lifting.

mavmarek · ‎02-24-2009

Quoting - james123123

I have an Intel G45 and Core2 CPU I purchased for my media center, I'd like to know how who I can contact at Intel to express my displeasure regarding this deliberate and misleading advertising to state the chipset's ability to render high definition content artificially limited to not function with an OS that is still in widespread use.

I have no care or interest for HDCP, only hardware decoding of x/h264 content over the HDMI, the reason I bought this capable, yet intentionally crippled product.

Thanks.

I would like to add my voice to this complaint. The hardware decoding on the G45 is described at best as "adequate". The Intel driver is limited and contains no real user functionality. Add to this the lack of DXVA compliance, the hardware acceleration is poor.

I had my G45 (Foxconn G45M-S) hooked up to a 720p Panasonic plasma via Vista media centre (64 bit). I used both Vista Media Centre and PowerDVD 8 and detected many issues. Here are some of them:

colors are washed out (I think using HD color decoder for SD content)
picture very noisey - noise reduction of Intel Clear View technolgy might as well not be there as it does nothing
sharpness control simply adds extreme amount of picture noise which makes it unusable
Saturation works at wrong frequency and so creates heavy red saturation without adding true RGB saturation increase/decrease
Blu-ray movies looks quite "flat" and lifeless - picture worse than SD TV content
Default for Intel G45 driver (hookup via HDMI) defaults to 30% overscan
Adding overscan creates immense amount of picture noise and so forced to underscan (Horizontal 70 and vertical 70 on my set)
Not to mention - it only rates 3.0 on the vista Graphics and 3.1 Gaming Graphics performance tests.

In contrast, I installed an ATI 3650 and all the above problems disappear and scores 4.8 on the graphics tests. The ATI card was in my 1st media center and I built a 2nd media centre around the G45 chipset after reading Intels hardware decoding claims. After seeing the picture quality and driver limitations, I wonder how Intel can throw these wild statements about how wonderful and capable the G45 graphics chipset is - especially in the statements for its use in a media centre.

Persoanlly, I believe it can't reproduce a DVD correctly (contrast, brightness, contrast, etc) let alone any HD content. I think Intel needs to take a look at ATI (and Nvidia) and see how good DVDs and bluray look - possiblly consult some audiophiles and videophiles - if they this chipset may have been spectacular not lack lustre.

Hope a driver update fixes all the above issues and gives the same options as ATI Catalyst Control Centre - but i will hold my breathe while i wait......

delacy__david · ‎02-24-2009

Quoting - mavmarek

I would like to add my voice to this complaint. The hardware decoding on the G45 is described at best as "adequate". The Intel driver is limited and contains no real user functionality. Add to this the lack of DXVA compliance, the hardware acceleration is poor.

I had my G45 (Foxconn G45M-S) hooked up to a 720p Panasonic plasma via Vista media centre (64 bit). I used both Vista Media Centre and PowerDVD 8 and detected many issues. Here are some of them:

colors are washed out (I think using HD color decoder for SD content)

picture very noisey - noise reduction of Intel Clear View technolgy might as well not be there as it does nothing

sharpness control simply adds extreme amount of picture noise which makes it unusable

Saturation works at wrong frequency and so creates heavy red saturation without adding true RGB saturation increase/decrease

Blu-ray movies looks quite "flat" and lifeless - picture worse than SD TV content

Default for Intel G45 driver (hookup via HDMI) defaults to 30% overscan

Adding overscan creates immense amount of picture noise and so forced to underscan (Horizontal 70 and vertical 70 on my set)

Not to mention - it only rates 3.0 on the vista Graphics and 3.1 Gaming Graphics performance tests.

In contrast, I installed an ATI 3650 and all the above problems disappear and scores 4.8 on the graphics tests. The ATI card was in my 1st media center and I built a 2nd media centre around the G45 chipset after reading Intels hardware decoding claims. After seeing the picture quality and driver limitations, I wonder how Intel can throw these wild statements about how wonderful and capable the G45 graphics chipset is - especially in the statements for its use in a media centre.

Persoanlly, I believe it can't reproduce a DVD correctly (contrast, brightness, contrast, etc) let alone any HD content. I think Intel needs to take a look at ATI (and Nvidia) and see how good DVDs and bluray look - possiblly consult some audiophiles and videophiles - if they this chipset may have been spectacular not lack lustre.

Hope a driver update fixes all the above issues and gives the same options as ATI Catalyst Control Centre - but i will hold my breathe while i wait......

gasp!!!!!!!!!!!! you bought a89 dollar ati card and its faster than the video that comes with the motherboard???
im in shock

evergreen97 · ‎02-25-2009

Quoting - beerandcandy

gasp!!!!!!!!!!!! you bought a89 dollar ati card and its faster than the video that comes with the motherboard???
im in shock

Hah! Sadly, my solution was a $24 nVidia 8400 card which works like a charm, but is a mini nuclear furnace in my HTPC. At least the G45 got the heat right...just not very helpful if the video doesn't work though...

mavmarek · ‎02-26-2009

Quoting - beerandcandy

gasp!!!!!!!!!!!! you bought a89 dollar ati card and its faster than the video that comes with the motherboard???
im in shock

Thanks smart-ass. I think you missed the point. Wen was speed a factor or ever mentioned in anything i stated in my post?

Neither ATI nor Intel grahics chipsets are designed for gaming and so neither is faster than the other in answer your strange statement.

Both are suppoosed to decode Blu-ray using GPU hardware decoding - that's it!!!

The point was (which I thought was quite clear and obvious if you had read my post...) and that is:

my $60 3450 ATI graphics card decodes blu-ray and DVD correctly.
The G45 doesn'tdecodes blu-ray and DVD correctly.

Also, the G45 driver doesn't have any functions that actually work correctly on video such as sharpness or color.

I wasn't expecing a gaming machine chipset - just one that delivers what it promises. I guess in hindsite, Intel never stated that it decoded HD and DVD well, just that could decode it.

Eric_S_Intel · ‎03-12-2009

Quoting - Eric Sardella (Intel)

Hi All.. Yeah, its close. Casimir666 - can you contact me (eric.sardella@intel.com). I need some help getting it to work with MPC. I tried to email you, but got no response. When I get MPC working, then I'll post the whitepaper. I just need to make sure its working first. It shouldnt be verymuch heavy lifting.

Ok, so it took a bit longer then I had anticipated, but dxva support for G45 has been committed to the mpc-hc repository on SourceForge. Multi-slice per frame encoded clips are still showing some corruption, and we are working on that. A big thanks to casimier666 for all the help.

I'll be posting a blog and whitepaper detailing the process.

Eric