Intel VT and notebook manufacturers -- call for action!

[levicki]

Good folks at Intel I need your help.

As some of you may have noticed, I have been awarded last summer with a Black Belt title, and I got a very nice notebook as a reward. It is a Sony VAIO VGN-FW190E.

Today I wanted to use Microsoft Virtual PC on it, and I realized in awe that the hardware virtualization support is disabled.

I used Everest, CPU-Z, CrystalCPUID and my own CPU info tool to verify that the P8600 actually does support VT which of course being high-end mobile 45nm part it does.

Being geeky I disassembled Virtual PC executable to check if perhaps detection doesn't work correctly and I found no flaws.

Then I consulted document order #253669 revision 29 (Intel 64 and IA-32 Architectures Software Developer's Manual Volume 3B - System Programming Guide) and in chapter 19.7 on page 156 I found that VT is controlled by MSR 0x3A bits 0, 1, and 2. I checked the contents of the MSR using CrystalCPUID MSR Editor tool and the value is 0x00000000 00000001, meaning that the VT has been disabled and the register locked.

After rebooting into BIOS I found no option to Enable/Disable VT. It is hardcoded as disabled.

I have spent two hours in chat with Sony Support. I got the following responses:

1. http://www.kb.sony.com/selfservice/documentLink.do?externalId=C381809

That KB article basically says that Intel VT is "currently" (since October 2008) not supported on VAIO notebooks.

2. Igor, as the Virtualization Technology is not supported, it is not possible to use the Hardware Virtualization.

In my opinion, this is giving Intel Corporation a bad name. I have Intel's latest and greatest mobile platform with not only VT but VT2 support which I cannot use simply because someone at Sony has been an incompetent cheapskate when they were configuring the BIOS modules.

3. This issue needs extensive communication. So, I suggest that you contact our Hotline Support team at 1-888-476-6972.

Well it is obvious that I can't make long distance call from Serbia and spend an hour listening to cheap elevator music until someone answers the phone and then spend another hour attempting to explain the technical nitty-gritty as I am being repeatedly told that "it is not supported".

4. BIOS updates will be released only if there are any known issues with the Computer.

Well, if this isn't a known issue then why it exists in their knowledge base? D'oh! Needless to say, BIOS is dated February 27th, 2008 so it probably doesn't even have recent microcode updates as well.

5. I suggest that you bookmark our Sony support site 'Drivers and Softwares' page to check for the latest updates.

Yeah, right. The only problem is that nowhere does it say on Sony's website "we are working on an update".

6. Igor, it is clearly mentioned that Sony VAIO computers do not currently support Virtualization Technology (VT).

Yes in the KB article dated October 27th, 2008.
No on the Sony Style website where the notebook has been ordered back in August 2008. Time travel not yet invented.

7. In this case, I suggest that you contact our Customer Information and Service Center to place and request. Dissatisfied customers and policy issues are handled by our Customer Information and Service Center.

Ok, so I will send an email, some developer will get it and all will be fine right? Bzzzt... Wrong!

8. Igor, I am sorry to inform you that, Telephone support is the only way to contact our Customer Information and Service Center.

Phone... again... this time I would need to call 1-239-768-7669 but I can't because...

9. In this case, you will be charged.

Well if I have to make an international call, isn't it obvious that I will be charged? D'oh!

Now, what this long (and hopefully at least a bit funny) rant tries to convey is that OEMs (not just Sony, other notebook manufacturers too) are damaging Intel's corporate image in this way.

How can I develop on Intel platform for Intel Platform using VT when I can't even turn it on?

I really need someone from Intel to help me with this issue.

Some manager on Intel Virtualization team who will pick up the phone, call a Sony representative, verbally wound his behind, rub some salt in, and demand a BIOS update A.S.A.P to be released to the customers. Or just politely ask -- whichever way works better.

Please folks, there is no one else who can resolve this!

Best regards,
Igor Levicki
Intel Black Belt

[Matt_Sealey]

Quoting - danieltr0815

I do understand the need of OEMs to [not] support computer features, depending on business model.
What I'd propose to "the industry" would be in such cases, to have (menu) sections marked as "not supported". This would make it clear to users, that if they {dis,en}able features, they may not get support for resulting problems, while at the same time it is left up to the users to decide what is important to them.
BTW: Companies often forget, that it is a good thing for them to not only focus on "the majority of users", but to enable "professionals/power users" as well, as they are the ones giving trusted opinions to friends and colleagues.

Personally I do not see why they disabled it. In embedded systems where I spend most of my time developing, if you do not expose every feature of a chip you're using you are practically wasting money. Enabling VT-x doesn't pose any support issues to Sony, and they certainly aren't using it as a way to drive sales to higher-priced models since NONE of the Vaio models support VT-x even with a VT-x supporting processor.

As a professional in the area of software development and product development, I am extremely disappointed in Sony for intentionally crippling the most attractive feature of the chip. I would be using it to run several Linux distributions and build environments (OpenEmbedded/Poky, T2 and LTIB) for cross-compilation for target systems - and compile time and performance of the build environment is important to me (the difference between a few hours compiling 32-bit toolchains vs. 64-bit is ALL the difference I need to justify using the 64-bit virtualization).

I implore, plead and beseech all Notebook and Desktop manufacturers - Sony especially - to seriously reconsider their support of this technology. I specifically purchased the VGN-FW390JAS with the P8600 processor rather than the T6400 model simply because of the support for VT-x (along with the lower TDP and potential for higher performance and battery life as secondary concerns, and of course the AMD graphics and Marvell ethernet which I have a personal soft spot for since we have dealt with both companies in my line of work) and now, while emulating a 32-bit environment is as workable as it ever was on my old VGN-S170P and Pentium 4 desktop, I feel ever so slightly cheated. The presence of a tiny one-line FAQ entry on their support site really does not do justice to notifying consumers of the inactive configured state of this feature.

Thank you all for your time and patience, and here's hoping that Sony see the light and ship an updated BIOS to properly activate this feature without resorting to bricking our laptops. I only wish I had some push at Sony to help with this issue, and may I say that I am slightly disappointed in Intel for not wishing to persue the issue further at Igor's suggestion.

--

Matt Sealey

Product Development Analyst
Developer Relations Manager

Genesi USA, Inc. - http://www.genesi-usa.com/

[Matt_Sealey]

Question: would it not be possible to write a kernel driver for Windows Vista that activated VT without the BIOS, or boot some kind of patched bootloader (GRUB?) that could do it, so that BIOS didn't need to be patched, and no extra tools would be required?

--
Matt Sealey
Product Development Analyst
Developer Relations Manager
Genesi USA, Inc. - http://www.genesi-usa.com/

[levicki]

Quoting - mwsealey

Question: would it not be possible to write a kernel driver for Windows Vista that activated VT without the BIOS, or boot some kind of patched bootloader (GRUB?) that could do it, so that BIOS didn't need to be patched, and no extra tools would be required?

Hello Matt,

Unfortunately, the answer is no. BIOS code always loads first. Once it loads, the register is locked until the next power cycle.

Just to put thing in perspective, 668 Sony owners alone (and counting!) have downloaded my VT patch since March 4th and my website isn't very discoverable.

Come on Intel, please do something about this situation already!

[dnt408]

Igor,

I'm in the same boat as you. I have the Sony VGN-Z520 Viao whiches used EFI too. Will your utilites work for my EFI too? It's doesn't seem to be AMi based but instead by some company named Insyde.


Quoting - Igor Levicki

Good news, everyone!

Since nobody wanted to help and to push this issue with Sony so that they release an official BIOS update which enables Intel VT I decided to roll up my sleeves and to help people who were in the same position as me -- they couldn't use a CPU feature they paid for.

I have finalized permanent Intel VT enable patch for Sony VAIO notebooks with AMI Aptio BIOS. You can get it from my website Downloads section. Read the enclosed README.TXT carefully before attempting to use it.

[levicki]

I believe I answered that a dozen times already -- Insyde is not supported by my patch. That is why it is important for Intel to push notebook vendors to enable us to change VT option in BIOS.

[sztupy]

I agree with all the things you said. I own an Aptio based MSI notebook which I bought just because it had a VT capable processor. Less did I know about the fact that if the bios does not have an option to enable it, then it won't be avaialable. Fortunately the 0x3a bit wasn't locked (which would mean that MSI simply didn't knew about the fact that a VT capable processor would need an option in the BIOS/EFI to enable this functionality), but it's still a big hassle to use the VT capabilities properly.

Computer manufacturers should know about the fact that virtualization is not something designed for the high-end developer user. Take a look at Windows 7 which is a consumer product, and which will have an XP SP3 virtualized so consumers can use legacy software products on it without much problems. This solution (which is designed for everyday business usage) however needs a VT capable processor in order to work, so "high-end" business notebooks, like the Sony Vaio series are out of luck.

But not only Intel needs to press OEMs to enable this functionality. BIOS manufacturers should also include in their developmenet kits more information about the usefulness of this option.

[Matt_Sealey]

Quoting - Igor Levicki

Come on Intel, please do something about this situation already!

I would have thought this was far more important now that Microsoft released Windows 7 RC1 and "XP Mode" requires a VT-x enabled processor to operate.

Even though updating to Windows 7 is not under the remit of Sony or OEMs until its released and even then only on new systems, it basically means that we have systems which can never (not for the want of trying) run the full gamut of functionality for enterprise use.

I'm still *really* disappointed in Sony. I love my FW390 but.. running 32-bit guests is just slow and annoying compared to what I expected. They didn't even disable it.. VirtualBox and VMWare happily let you select that the processor supports VT-x and then fail miserably. It's definitely possible to turn off the feature so that these apps do not detect it at all and do not even try.

[arjarj]

I'd just like to add my support to your campaign to get Sony to update their Bios code to support VT. I have a Sony VGN-AR71ZU and I find it incredible that Sony have disabled VT in the Bios. I cannot run the new XP mode in Windows 7 unless I manually hack my Bios and risk killing it.

[Matt_Sealey]

Quoting - Eric Sardella (Intel)

Hi Igor -

I've forwared your concerns to the director of OEM enabling. I understand your frustration, but OEM's make the decision on what's in/what's out - based on a large set of parameters - like validation, market segment, cost, etc. I'll let you know what comes of it.

Thanks
Eric Sardella

Hi Eric,

Has there been any progress on this? It would be nice to know if Intel dropped it as a lost cause or if Sony or ANY OEM responded.

To cater to my virtualization needs I basically picked up a Shuttle SX38P2 and a Q8400 to get the work done (running Vista + 3 VMware instances). My laptop and a bunch of other machines in here (Linux based) all contribute to an OpenEmbedded compile farm. I really wish I could do this more portably though, as sometimes I need to do highly processor-intensive work in Linux and am not willing to throw away Vista or dual boot to do it.

--
Matt Sealey
Product Development Analyst
Developer Relations Manager
Genesi USA, Inc. - http://www.genesi-usa.com/

[Joseph_Ashizawa]

Adding my support for this "call for action" thread. Have a Sony VAIO VGN-TT290-CTO SU9600 Core 2 Duo H20 / 4GB / InsydeH2O / SSD Raid 0. VT is disabled by Sony and inaccessible.

[peterkorn]

Quoting - Igor Levicki

Good folks at Intel I need your help.

...

I would like to add my voice to the set of Sony VAIO owners who want to have Intel VT features enabled. In my case I have a Sony VAIO VGN-Z31XN with the Insyde H2O bios. I need to do some work in 64-bit Vista, but my system came with only 32-bit Vista. I shrunk the paritition to use VirtualBox inside OpenSolaris 2008.11, only to discover that I could not have a 64-bit guest OS.

Sony - please allow me to enable Intel VT, even if you do not offer it as a supported option!

Thanks,

Peter Korn

[levicki]

Quoting - peterkorn

I would like to add my voice to the set of Sony VAIO owners who want to have Intel VT features enabled. In my case I have a Sony VAIO VGN-Z31XN with the Insyde H2O bios. I need to do some work in 64-bit Vista, but my system came with only 32-bit Vista. I shrunk the paritition to use VirtualBox inside OpenSolaris 2008.11, only to discover that I could not have a 64-bit guest OS.

Sony - please allow me to enable Intel VT, even if you do not offer it as a supported option!

Thanks,

Peter Korn

So far, both Intel and Sony seem to be ignoring the fact that so far 2054 VAIO owners have downloaded and used my BIOS patch for VT enabling.

[Matt_Sealey]

Quoting - Igor Levicki

So far, both Intel and Sony seem to be ignoring the fact that so far 2054 VAIO owners have downloaded and used my BIOS patch for VT enabling.

And these are just the ones adventurous to even try it. Personally I downloaded it but.. have not risked bricking my laptop yet. I am waiting on Sony to do the decent thing..

[levicki]

Quoting - Matt Sealey, Genesi USA, Inc.

And these are just the ones adventurous to even try it. Personally I downloaded it but.. have not risked bricking my laptop yet. I am waiting on Sony to do the decent thing..

Well, out of 2054, only two persons managed to brick their notebooks and they got them fixed in the nearest service center. I would say that 0.1% failure rate isn't that much of a risk compared to 100% risk I have taken while I was developing the patch.

[Matt_Sealey]

Quoting - Igor Levicki

Well, out of 2054, only two persons managed to brick their notebooks and they got them fixed in the nearest service center. I would say that 0.1% failure rate isn't that much of a risk compared to 100% risk I have taken while I was developing the patch.

I still don't have the balls to do it :D

I did have one question, it says in your website that you have to run CrystalCPUID or your own program to properly enable the feature after boot, but I can't find your own utility.. maybe I had an old version of the tool? Also that VT-x would disable itself if you made your computer sleep (so running VMs at that time would be a horrible idea, too).

That was another reason I did not want to patch it.

With a real BIOS from Sony none of these problems would occur and in the end, I would rather see a legitimate solution from them than have to second-guess my choice of sleep or shutdown or remember to shut down VMs (I run VMWare Server so, they run in the background without any interaction from me, and I prefer the Linux VM to boot up on boot with a 120 second delay..)

[levicki]

Quoting - Matt Sealey, Genesi USA, Inc.

I still don't have the balls to do it :D

I did have one question, it says in your website that you have to run CrystalCPUID or your own program to properly enable the feature after boot, but I can't find your own utility.. maybe I had an old version of the tool? Also that VT-x would disable itself if you made your computer sleep (so running VMs at that time would be a horrible idea, too).

That was another reason I did not want to patch it.

With a real BIOS from Sony none of these problems would occur and in the end, I would rather see a legitimate solution from them than have to second-guess my choice of sleep or shutdown or remember to shut down VMs (I run VMWare Server so, they run in the background without any interaction from me, and I prefer the Linux VM to boot up on boot with a 120 second delay..)

I really can't help you with your balls issue, but I can tell you that the latest patcher is permanently enabling VT so there is no need for any additional tools and you can even suspend/resume with VM running.

[Matt_Sealey]

Quoting - Igor Levicki

I really can't help you with your balls issue, but I can tell you that the latest patcher is permanently enabling VT so there is no need for any additional tools and you can even suspend/resume with VM running.

Fair enough! I may well try that tonight on my VGN-FW390 (which I believe should work fine I saw some forum posts round and about that had good results).

[levicki]

Quoting - Matt Sealey, Genesi USA, Inc.

Fair enough! I may well try that tonight on my VGN-FW390 (which I believe should work fine I saw some forum posts round and about that had good results).

Good luck!

[Matt_Sealey]

Quoting - Igor Levicki

Good luck!

Thankyou! I found my balls and updated the BIOS and now I have VT-x. I already noticed a considerable improvement in my compile times in my 32-bit VM - now to update all the OS to 64-bit :)

[levicki]

Quoting - Matt Sealey, Genesi USA, Inc.

Thankyou! I found my balls and updated the BIOS and now I have VT-x. I already noticed a considerable improvement in my compile times in my 32-bit VM - now to update all the OS to 64-bit :)

I am glad it worked for you. In the meantime, download counter for VTPatch.rar on my website reached 2067 downloads.

[shermantenor]

Quoting - Igor Levicki

I am glad it worked for you. In the meantime, download counter for VTPatch.rar on my website reached 2067 downloads.

Igor - just a short note of thanks. I had planned to purchase the new Vaio Z Series 790CTO and have decided to look elsewhere due to this issue.

I posted a comment on the Sony knowledgebase article which basically says that VT isn't supported in which I made it clear this was the reason I wouldn't likely purchase their product.

I can't understand how a company can position a product as for business and disable this feature - completely backwards!

Intel needs to step up here to ensure that computers shipped with VT capable processors have this function enabled - or display a prominent disclaimer advertising the fact that VT is disabled.

I almost shelled out over $2000 for something that would have been practically useless for my purposes. Sony is quick enough to list the processor model which is included, but leaves out that they purposefully cripple the firmware to disable the processor's features.

I don't understand why Sony doesn't opt to save some money and buy non-VT processors for these machines. This would drive the cost down, and ultimately people would know by the Intel Processor inside if the computer supports VT or not.

Ive noticed that Sony has added a small Windows 7 logo on their CTO screen for the Z790 strange as one of the core features for business users is not going to work period. When folks realize that Microsoft is only allowing XP Compatibility Mode to run on VT enabled machines, the general public will become keenly aware of which machines to stay away from. At the moment, that would be computers made by Sony.

-- ST