Intel platform laptop Thunderbolt 4 with Power Delivery

[LM9052]

Hi Intel,

I want to understand if Thunderbolt with Power Delivery is an Intel standard and all laptop manufacturer labelled their laptop with Thunderbolt with Power Delivery function will deliver the required performance and compatibility with other (third-party) TB devices.

If a new EVO or vPro intel platform laptop has Thunderbolt 4 with Power Delivery 3.0 in the specification, shall it work with all TB4 docks for display and up to 100w charging?

The reason I ask this is I have seen laptops (Lenovo in particular) has TB and PD ports but only work with their legacy USB-C gen 2 docks to have power delivery to their laptops. How can I tell if a TB laptop will work with TB docks and displays? Isn't the whole point of having a TB port standard to make sure all different devices from different manufacturers will work together without compatibility issues?

Regards

[n_scott_pearson]

I have to answer this two ways. First of all, yes, PD is part of the Thunderbolt Specification and support for up to 100W PD is defined. That said, what is actually supported in a particular laptop model is dependent upon what the laptop manufacturer provides support for. There is nothing in the EVO or vPro specifications (or (I think?) in the Thunderbolt or USB specifications) that absolutely requires PD to be supported.

TBT-equipped PCs should always interoperate with TBT docks or displays - though I have heard of cases where early (read: Apple) TBT1/TBT2 docks and displays do not work with TBT3 PCs. The issue with the standard is that implementations can differ because not all features are specified as being required. I have seen a few cases, for example, where systems equipped with TBT3 - which can, by spec, support multiple monitors - will only support a single monitor. Again, this was a vendor's decision.

The bottom line here is that you need to know what features you want and look for systems that support those features. Remember that having a version of the spec released - like that for TBT4 (or TBT5 for that matter) - does not automatically mean that every new system will support  it. The same goes for USB4 too; it has the same level of wishy-washy-ness (though it quite the improvement from USB3). TBT vs. USB depends upon two factors: (1) TBT is considered proprietary to Intel (even though it really isn't), and (2) cost. Cost is really everything. Even though they are so very close to being the same (but not), TBT4 implementations are slightly more costly that USB4 implementations and vendors are always looking for ways to reduce costs.

If I was purchasing a laptop today, I would require at least a Gen12 processor, two TBT4 ports and support for being able to power the laptop via either of these TBT ports. Oh, and I still prefer to see an Ethernet 2.5Gb port on the laptop.

Just saying,

...S

[LM9052]

Thank Scott,

As a laptop user I am expecting a laptop with TB4 and PD as a bare minimum for mobile productivity so that I can connect to any TB docks or monitors at home or work without carrying a power adapter with me anymore.

But the Lenovo Yoga which is advertised to have a TB4 port with PD3.0 port somehow does not work with any TB4 docks, including their own TB4 dock. Does this make any sense under the TB4 and PD branding requirements when they clearly put TB4 and PD3.0 as a feature yet no TB4 dock will work with their laptop?

Is this just Lenovo or it is a common issue? I have Dell and HP laptops at work but all of them work with standard TB4 docks. The dell is a 200w workstation  and still charges over PD3 at 100w, just slower.

Regards.

[n_scott_pearson]

No, this doesn't make any sense at all. Their TBT4 Dock says it supports 100W PD; where does it say that this dock won't work with the Yoga (and which Yoga model are you talking about)?

Just a side note: there are a lot of USB Docks that would work off this TBT4 USB-C connector and support 100W PD to boot - and for a lot less money than a TBT Dock. What feature(s) are you looking for that absolutely require TBT?

...S

[LM9052]

Hi Scott,

Thanks for letting me know that I am not being unreasonable to expect a laptop being marketed to support TB4 with PD 3.0 should work with a standard TB4 dock (at least from the same manufacturer who suggests their dock will work with any laptop with an industry standard TB4 port). Lenovo support told me their universal TB4 dock is not compatible with their laptop after they asked me to do a factory reset.

The Laptop is a Yoga Pro 16IRP8, it is listed with a TB4 port that supports PD3.0 and DP1.4. The marketing material also says it supports TB4 docks but there is no compatible TB4 dock available according to Lenovo. I have done a bit of research and apparently, this is a common issue with this particular model, Lenovo has been ignoring all customers' enquiries (including mine).

To be honest, I don't really care if it is a TB4 dock or an old USB-C gen2 dock as long as I can carry it around to use with usb-c dock without carrying the charger for emails and word processing. The thing really pissed me off is not only the laptop does not work with any TB4 dock, I have to get a particular Lenovo usb-c gen2 dock (I have tested with Dell , HP, and a handful of third party USB-C docks). Which means I still need to carry a power adapter around for an ultra slim laptop. And Lenovo is claiming that there are compatibility issues with the docks I used while every other brand including Dell, Asus, and HP all work perfectly fine as USB-C is also an industry standard. There is definitely something wrong with their hardware design and Lenovo is trying to cover it up. In their responses, they kept repeating that the laptop supports TB4 and PD3.0, but they can not provide a working TB4 dock and you have to buy a specific legacy usb-c gen2 dock from them to have display and power delivery. I guess if this is the case, they shall not claim their laptop supports TB4 with PD3.0 and DP1.4.

By the way, I also tested it with some random 100W 20Vdc usb-c charger and it charges the laptop perfectly fine. So I don't really understand how they can mess this up like this and being so ignorant. I purchased 2 laptops last year from them and even signed up a business account with them for my small business. I was about to switch completely from Dell to Lenovo but thanks to their customer service team Lenovo will be on my black list and I will encourage all my clients to avoid Lenovo.