AX210 Periodic Lag Spike

[Olorin]

Hi all,

I've been pulling my hair out trying to resolve an issue with my AX210 WiFi card. Basically every 1/ minutes on the dot, I experience 5 seconds of latency/lag while doing in home game streaming (via the Moonlight client). Things that I have tried to resolve but failed:

- Using Linux (worked for 2 weeks then problem came back)
- Disabling all power related settings for WiFi
- Following all suggestions around this problem both in driver management and regedit
- updating to the latest driver
- modifying a whole slew of settings with network setup

I finally decided to completely downgrade the WiFi driver today, and before updating it, decided I'd do a test. I set Block Global BG Scanning to always (previously this setting wasn't available to me, although I set it in regedit) then ran my streaming. I was able to play fine for 15 minutes, where normally I get a lag spike every 10 minutes on the dot.

My question now is twofold:
- with the latest WiFi driver, does the Block Global BG Scanning regedit key have any effect?
- is there some issue with the latest driver that is causing these lag spikes when doing very latency sensitive activities (such as game streaming)?

Is it possible to re-enable the global BG Scanning option in an attempt to fix this going forward? As it stands, it seems my only option is to downgrade my wifi driver, and utilize that setting which has since been removed.

It seems there's some periodic thing going on with the card that can't be disabled in later versions of the driver (and also exists in the Linux driver by the looks of things)

[eSportsJunkie]

I've been having the same problem with ax201. Tried different APs as well. I'm in a situation where it's hard to install ethernet but I have no interference with wifi since I live in a big property. 

I can get ~1ms avg ping. Spikes to 2-3ms at the most if not for the huge 10 minute scan spike. Currently using an Asus ax86u as an AP.

The 10 minute spike can be as little as 15ms to as huge as 100ms. And it's annoying while playing games.

I've tried everything from regedit to advanced driver options but the scanwhenassociated regedit no longer works. The only solution I've found was to run an ethernet cable across the floor when I'm playing scrims or important matches.

I've considered replacing this crappy ax201 to qualcomm's solution but I'm not sure if I can with my current motherboard.

[Olorin]

Yep so sounds like you have the exact same issue as me (and followed the same suggestions as me with no luck).

Have you tried the downgrade route? I can say with a high level of confidence that this for now seems to be the only thing that actually works

[eSportsJunkie]

No. Only thing that improved it for me was setting 802.11a/b/g to 5Ghz 802.11a. This limits the adapter to 5ghz only.

[Olorin]

If that no is no you haven't tried the downgrade route, I'd definitely suggest trying it. Like you I tried a whole bunch of things with next to no success - this really was the only thing that gave a consistently better result

[eSportsJunkie]

I haven't tried downgrading drivers.

Do you know what's the latest version of the driver that allows u to disable scan? 

[Olorin]

That I am not too sure about! I just downgraded and ran with whatever it put it down too - I haven't noticed any negative impacts on performance so not too worried about getting a later one

[eSportsJunkie]

@intelIs there any plans to fix this? My card shouldn't be scanning for networks when it's connected and with good signal 1200/1200mps.

Maybe bring back the option to disable scan completely when connected to a network? Does any of the new adapters improve/fix this? I guess I could always grab a be200 or ax411 since I have 13th intel cpu.

It happens exactly every 10 minutes on the dot on different routers and adapters. (both ax201 and laptop with ac9260). Sometimes it's not to disruptive 15-30ms. But other times it's 50-120ms and it disrupts anything real time. 

Ping plotter showing the issue. I've left it running for a lot longer, and it's exactly 10minutes. Right after that spike dissapears from the graph a new appears. 

Edit: Downgraded to 22.120.1.9 and enabled Global BG scan blocking. It's looking promising. 20min and no spike as of yet.

Why was Global BG scan blocking even removed in the first place? And how is it possible no one is complaining about this?

[RamyerM_Intel]

Hello Olorin, 

I would like to apologize for the delay in our responses, to better understand why this lag spike is happening, please share with us the following details: 

1. When did the issue started? Was it sudden or gradual?
2. Was the system working before?
3. Have you made any changes before the issue occurred? If you do, kindly please indicate if it is a software or a hardware change.
4. Is there a noticeable distance between you and the router? 
5. Is this also happening to other devices? 
6. What is the driver version that is experiencing the issue? 
7. What is the driver version that you used for the downgrade? 
8. It would really help us if we can get more information about your system. Please download and run our Intel® System Support Utility located at this link: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/18377/intel-system-support-utility-for-windows.html.
   1. After running it, you will be given an option to save the logs to a text file, please do so and attach the file on your reply.

As for eSportsJunkie's concern, it is best if you would be able to create a different thread as you may have different system which will require a different troubleshooting. 

Ramyer M. 

Intel Customer Support Technician 

[Olorin]

When did the issue started? Was it sudden or gradual?

This was an issue I noticed as soon as I started doing the streaming I mentioned in my post. I tried a whole bunch of different suggestions to fix it, but nothing worked

Was the system working before?

No, my AX210 has always had this issue

Have you made any changes before the issue occurred? If you do, kindly please indicate if it is a software or a hardware change.

No, this issue was occurring from a fresh install of Windows and when I first started using the device

Is there a noticeable distance between you and the router? 

No, I have a Unifi Nano HD about 2m directly from my location with no blockages

Is this also happening to other devices? 

I had the same problem on another device with an AX210

What is the driver version that is experiencing the issue? 

I was using the latest driver version when I experienced this issue, but I assume any driver after when the Block Global BG Scanning setting was removed will experience the same issue. The driver version I was previously using was 23.20.0.4

What is the driver version that you used for the downgrade? 

Currently I am using the 22.0.1.5 version of the driver. This driver has the Block Global BG Scanning option, and I have set it to 'Always'. With this configuration, I have not experienced the issue again. I really do think being able to access this setting in later drivers would help - at least a user can opt in to the functionality to resolve niche issues like this.

It would really help us if we can get more information about your system. Please download and run our Intel® System Support Utility located at this link: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/18377/intel-system-support-utility-for-windows.html.

1. After running it, you will be given an option to save the logs to a text file, please do so and attach the file on your reply.

I have attached the file from the above utility 

[RamyerM_Intel]

Hello Olorin, 

Thank you for sharing these details. For now, we will proceed in coordinating this with our team. I will make sure to update once I received an update on or before February 8, 2024. 

Ramyer M. 

Intel Customer Support Technician 

[RamyerM_Intel]

Hello Olorin,

I have some news regarding your inquiry. To better understand the situation, please answer the following questions: Does the issue happen only when you stream games using the Moonlight client, or also when you browse the web normally? Which devices have the same issue, and what are their brands and models? When you faced the wireless performance issue, did you experience latency, lag, or disconnection?

For now, kindly follow the steps at this link as well to see if the lag spike will still occur.

• Recommended Settings for 802.11ax Connectivity: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000057574/wireless.html
• Quick Checks to Improve or Fix Wi-Fi Connection Issues: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005493/wireless.html

About the global BG Scan blocking, I want to let you know that driver 22.150.0 has implemented several changes and improvements to reduce or eliminate the impact of BG Scan on the user experience.

A background scan is usually done to find out what other apps are nearby in case you need to switch. In other words, a background scan is now done more effectively and minimizes the impact on other activities that the user might be doing.

With the new improvements, the global BG Scan blocking setting is no longer required in the latest driver, 22.150.0.

Ramyer M.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[Olorin]

Hi again,

To confirm:

Does the issue happen only when you stream games using the Moonlight client, or also when you browse the web normally? Which devices have the same issue, and what are their brands and models? When you faced the wireless performance issue, did you experience latency, lag, or disconnection?

• I have only noticed the issue when game streaming (mainly due to the highly sensitive nature of streaming in terms of latency spikes). Other devices without intel wifi cards work fine, so it is not a Moonlight issue
• I have tried this on a GPD Win 4 and GPD Win Max 2023, both of which have Intel wifi cards - both exhibited the same issue. For both of these devices, when I instead use USB wireless (TP-LINK) the problem goes away - however obviously as it's a USB stick, overall performance isn't as good
• Latency/lag spikes is my problem here. It is fine for 5-10 minutes, then I get a period of 5 seconds with high latency. This happens repeatedly every 5-10 minutes

For now, kindly follow the steps at this link as well to see if the lag spike will still occur.

• I have already tried all of these (and a lot more suggestions) - none of these resolve the problem. Only downgrading the driver and setting Block Global BG Scanning to Always resolves the issue

About the global BG Scan blocking, I want to let you know that driver 22.150.0 has implemented several changes and improvements to reduce or eliminate the impact of BG Scan on the user experience.

A background scan is usually done to find out what other apps are nearby in case you need to switch. In other words, a background scan is now done more effectively and minimizes the impact on other activities that the user might be doing.

With the new improvements, the global BG Scan blocking setting is no longer required in the latest driver, 22.150.0.

• I have read this in another post - the fact of the matter is my issue is ONLY FIXED when I dowgrade the driver and DISABLE Global BG scan. Regardless of the improvements made, BG scanning looks to be causing issues for me still in 22.150.0. It would be  incredibly helpful to have this setting added back. I don't care about the improvements made, as I still have issues - only disabling BG scanning helps me

[eSportsJunkie]

From my testing, even with BG scanning set to always there are scans, just less frequently.

Opening the command prompt and disabling wlan autoconfig with the command below seems to disable scans completely:

netsh wlan set autoconfig enabled=no interface="Wi-Fi"

But you'll have to enable it again when you want to connect to a network. Maybe make a .bat and have it on the desktop.

This is annoying for anything latency sensitive, not only game streaming. A good tool to test this is pingplotter, just leave it in the background pinging the router every 0.5s or soo. 

It also affects every intel adapter i've tried on different machines. AC8265(old system don't have it anymore), ac9260, ax200 and ax201.

Intel has been aware of this issue for a long time. They don't care/want to fix it, they even removed the regedit keys u could use to do soo(ScanWhenAssociated).

And then you go to their forums to complain about it and get the usual scripted responses... 

[Gimk]

Hey there, I was watching this forum for a while but decided to create an account to ask a few questions.

Once the driver downgraded and the bg scan setting set to always do you still have lag spikes every 30 minutes?

I'm asking because I went and bought another Wifi adapter, a MediaTek MT7922, to use instead of the AX210 I bought a few weeks back (and returned), and instead of my old motherboard internal AC-9462.

The mediatek drivers only allows to set the roaming to "disabled", but no setting is present about bg scan - doesn't matter, it seemed to work fine out of the box. But then, I noticed a periodic 30 min lag spike (although less long usual intel bg scan, but still there).

What's more, I found out that changing the drivers settings and saving, would, no matter the setting changed, make that lag spike go away until the next reboot. I thought it was Mediatek take on the bg scan issues, so I decided to return it (again), to keep using my internal AC-9462, which I thought worked fine with the downgraded drivers.

But I was very surprised to find the exact same periodic 30 min lag spike in my session today.

So if I'm the only one with this issue, it could be my hardware. If you see a similar thing though, I wonder if some lag spikes could come from Windows itself?

I'm testing exclusively with Nvidia Geforce NOW.

[RamyerM_Intel]

Hello Olorin, 

Apologies for the delay in my response. We want to investigate this further for you. As such, I will be sending you a private message. Kindly please expect to receive it within the day. 

As for eSportsJunkie, 

I would like to apologize if it feels like I am sending generic responses. I want to assure you that I am tailoring my messages to address each specific concerns. However, some of the issues may have common solutions or require similar information. 

Ramyer M. 

intel Customer Support Technician 

[Ree9]

Thank you for sharing the solution to this problem!  I was also having intermittent "slow connection" warnings in Moonlight, and didn't know that background scanning was the cause until yesterday.

On all my other computers I was able to disable background scanning, so I was surprised to find the option missing on the AX210-containing PC.

After downgrading to 22.140, the option is available again, and now my Moonlight streaming is flawless!

For anyone else who encounters this, you can download older drivers from the Microsoft Update Catalog website here: https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=intel%20ax210%2022.140.0.3

For Intel, please bring back the "Block Global BG Scanning " option!  Your changes in 22.150 might have made things better, but they clearly didn't make things perfect, so give us the feature we need to make things perfect.  Between this and the issue I'm having with channel 44 on 5GHz that hasn't received a single response from Intel yet, I'm thinking this may be the last Intel adapter I buy...

[Gimk]

Did that really fix your issue for good?
I noticed that it either comes back one way or another at the next reboot, or simply just become a longer periodic stutter, but it never goes away for ever.
Although I have an older Intel adapter, not a 210, could be the reason.

[Ree9]

Too early to tell I guess, I only streamed for about an hour today before signing off.

I'll reboot the PC tomorrow and then stream all day while I work and see what happens.

[Ree9]

Computer was shut-off overnight, so started with a fresh boot today, and so far it's gone all morning without a single hiccup.

So seems like 22.140 with Block Global BG Scanning=Always does the trick.  (Hopefully I didn't just jinx it!)

[Ree9]

Happened to me again earlier this morning, and I thought "oh no, Gimk was right, it does come back" but then I double-checked the driver version in Device Manager and found it had auto-updated to the latest version again.  Rolled back, and been good since.

@RamyerM_Intel, this is further proof that your latest driver needs the Block Global BG Scanning option restored!