BE200 M.2 card getting very warm

[Mathiasn]

Hi, so I can see that the BE200 is rated for 0°C to +50°C ambient temperature. 
At 25deg ambient I can easily reach 100deg °C and at 50deg controlled ambient it reaches 115deg °C at iperf 1Gbit/s. 

It does not have a heatsink, but this sounds very warm. In the datasheet I can't find the Maximum Operating Temperature. What would that be?

Running on Linux 6.6.28 kernel.

Thanks in advance!

[Mathiasn]

Some more testing. Did a bench setup at 24.5 °C ambient doing iperf at 1.2Gbit over a 160MHz 2x2 link.
I attached two temperature probes. One on the bottom side and one on the top side.

Bottom probe: 85.7 °C
Top probe: 88.2 °C

The temperature reported in Linux "cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone*/temp" was 115 °C.

Can one trust the temperature reported?
I took a few older cards appart(AX200 and AX210, did not want to destroy my BE200, since a have so few). I noticed that the metal shield does not have any thermal pad or paste to the IC(at lest on the older ones). So this could of course lead to a somewhat bad heat transfer.

I read that the maximum operating temp for the AX210 was spec to 80 °C. So this made me a bit worried that these cards are running at bit too hot.

Some information about the maximum operating temp of the BE200 would be most welcome here to get some guindance in what I need to do in terms of cooling.

Thanks again in advance!

[RamyerM_Intel]

Hello Mathiasn, 

Thank you for posting in the communities. Upon checking, I can confirm as well that the Temperature Range for Intel® Wireless Product is from 0°C to 80°C. As for the BE200, I might to verify the information with our team but before I do so, I want to ask some details to further investigate why this is happening. May I please know the system wherein this products are inserted? You may also send us the SSU logs so we can be more familiar with your configuration. Additionally, what software are you using to monitor these temperatures? I will be waiting for your reply. 

Ramyer M. 

Intel Customer Support Technician

[Mathiasn]

Thanks for the reply!

Good to confirm the operating temperture range  


So test above is on a aarch64 board. Will attach SSU. On this board it is on the opossite side of the SOC, so minimal heat transfer between those, since they are separted by the mainboard. 

To add to the test above I could observe that the speed dropped from the initial 1Gbit+ speeds down to 400-500Mbit range when it was sitting at the 115deg mark for some time. Does the card have built in power throttling ?

I extended these test this morning by running this on a x86 NUC as well. The temp is similar sitting at about 110deg after 1h of running. This NUC, however has a FAN o nthe oppsite side, so now direct airflow, but would probvably get some indirect circulation.

The temp probes used are of K-type and was coupled with thermal paste. 
They were read by two EEVblog BM786 Multimeters.

The temp read in Linux was retrieved, as erilier specified, by looking in 
/sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone*/temp

Were the number would be different depending on system.
Example from X86 NUC:
> cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone5/type
> iwlwifi_1

> cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone5/temp
> 110000    (110 deg celsius, as this is reported in milli celcius)


Software specs for each system:
AARCH64:
 - Debian 12
 - Kernel 6.6.28
- Linux firmware  linux-firmware-20240513.tar.gz
- 83.ec13314b.0 gl-c0-fm-c0-83.ucode

X86:
- Ubuntu 22.04 LTS
- kernel  6.5.0-28-generic
- Linux firmware  linux-firmware-20240513.tar.gz
- 83.ec13314b.0 gl-c0-fm-c0-83.ucode

Happy to provide more info or do more tests. I do not have MLO capable AP yet. But would be interesting to see the temperature with that feature, since the thermals are heavly dependent on load. 

[NormanS_Intel]

Hello Mathiasn, 

I've had the opportunity to review this conversation and I'd like to contribute some additional insights on the matter. 

The Intel WiFi 7 BE200 is indeed rated for an ambient temperature range of 0°C to +50°C, and the maximum operating temperature is specified as 80°C. If your BE200 is reaching temperatures of 100°C at 25°C ambient and 115°C at 50°C ambient, it is operating above the recommended maximum temperature. This could potentially lead to reduced performance or damage over time.

Regarding the temperature readings reported by Linux, they are generally reliable as they are provided by the system's sensors. However, it's always good practice to cross-check with external probes, as you have done, to ensure accuracy. The discrepancy between the probe readings and the Linux-reported temperature could be due to several factors, including sensor calibration, the location of the probes, or the thermal interface between the sensor and the component.

The absence of a thermal pad or paste on the metal shield could indeed result in suboptimal heat transfer. Thermal pads and pastes are designed to fill the microscopic air gaps between the component and the heatsink, improving thermal conductivity and heat dissipation.

As for the observed drop in speed, network cards can have built-in mechanisms to reduce power consumption and heat generation under high-temperature conditions, which might explain the throttling you've noticed when the card operates at higher temperatures.

It's advisable to enhance cooling, possibly by adding a heatsink or improving airflow, to maintain optimal operating temperatures and prevent performance degradation.

In summary, it's crucial to keep the BE200 within its specified operating temperature range to ensure longevity and performance. You might want to consider additional cooling solutions or even custom heatsink designs if the card consistently operates at high temperatures. If you're experiencing persistent overheating issues, contacting the manufacturer of the board for guidance would also be a prudent step. You can also check our Temperature Range for Intel® Wireless Products article.

Best regards,

Norman S.

Intel Customer Support Engineer

[Mathiasn]

Thanks for the answer.

So for the probes I now added some insulation, to try and make it more Adiabatic.
The probes reaches 100deg(sam on tp/bottom) and card is at 115deg. So discrepency is probably due to the lack of thermal paste.
Also I assume that the sensor temp is the junction temp. Also thanks for claryfing that one should be able to trust the readings.

So heatsink would of course be the ideal solution and I'm looking at different options, but at 4W of power draw from the BE200, it is not trivial for our application.

I have fitted a "semi-large" finned heatsink, 25x25x25mm. But still reaches 92deg at 23 ambient.

I do find it interesting that in the datasheet the listed abient range to be up to +50deg, since there is no information given to the user that one need cooling solutions(since it overheats even at 22 odd degrees).

Would you have any derating curve for the lifetime at different temperatures ?

Also when you say " manufacturer of the board", do you referencing the M.2 card? Well if so, that is made by Intel.
Also again, it should not matter, since this was tested in an open space, the listed ambient range should still hold, which in my opinion it does not  


Also are there plans for industial grade version of the BE200, as with the AX210 ?

[RamyerM_Intel]

Hello Mathiasn, 

Thank you for being active in this thread. I want to check this inquiry with my team and as such, I kindly ask for more time to be able to coordinate this. I will make sure to get back to you as soon as possible. 

Ramyer M. 

Intel Customer Support Technician 

[RamyerM_Intel]

Hello Mathiasn, 

I have sent you an email regarding this case. Please check your inbox for more details.

Ramyer M. 

Intel Customer Support Technician