Bluetooth lags with Intel 11th gen devices (Intel AX)

[Marcus_St]

Hello all,

As many others, I do experience, that Bluetooth 5.0 input peripherals do not work to a usable state on Intel 11th gen devices with Intel AX* wireless cards.

The issue is that mouse/keyboards inputs ARE received by the devices, but not processed on an OS level. As a result, the mouse cursor/scroll wheel/buttons constantly "hang" until the OS can process the input and then "jump" around the screen.

You can see a video here: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AgyIEcRUU6OZhCEM2e6mDG54SNGC?e=Mxqxwb , please notice the red circles to see when the mouse cursor jumps. A timer is running in the background to show that the video was not cut.

The devices tested/affected are:

Intel devices:

• Dell XPS 9310 (Intel AX1650)
• Dell Inspiron 5406 (Intel AX201)

Bluettoth devices:

• Logitech MX anywhere 3
• HP Spectre 700 mouse
• Dell Mobile Wireless-Maus – MS3320W

Operating systems:

• Windows 10 (latest version)
• Ubuntu 20.04 with latest patches

Connected Bluetooth peripherals face a constant lag after not being actively used for 3-5 seconds. It affects movements, scrolls, mouse pressed, etc. 3-5 seconds is so fast, that it completely interrupts the workflow. It is the time to read a sentence and then to move the mouse again or klick a button.

The issue is reproducible on Windows AND Linux (Ubuntu 20.04) operating systems. So it is NOT a Windows issue but either with Intel drivers or on the firmware level.

The lags do NOT occur on a Dell Inspiron 7501 with Intel i5-10300H. The issue is completely absent there! Also on other devices running a Intel <11th gen system or AMD systems (HP, Lenovo, Fujitsu), the issue could not be reproduced. The issue could also not be reproduced using non BLE peripherals! The issue can also not be reproduced if an external Bluetooth adapter is used on the affected devices. 

I've went through Dell support for the last 4 months and the 3rd level team finally responded that the "behavior is according to the Intel specifications".

There is a fix available which is to disable all USB power management but that leads to multiple hardware related OS crashes, as proper power management is essential for most hardware components including Intel components.

The forums of all OEMs are full with reports according  this issue in combination with 11th gen Intel processors. 

@intel, what can your customers do about that? Is there a fix in the works?

If you need more information, I am happy to support where I can!

Kind regards,

Marcus

[jjjjamie]

I have the same issue on my Lenovo Yoga 14s 2021 (AX201 + i5 11300H) since I purchased it.

Driver version: 22.50.0.4

Mouse: Razer Basilisk X HyperSpeed (Which is a BLE peripheral)

Same as Marcus, that problem could be fixed by disable some power management features in registry, but it produces other weird behaviors.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\USB\VID_8087&PID_0026\5&134FB8F6&0&10\Device Parameters]
"DeviceSelectiveSuspended"=dword:00000000
"SelectiveSuspendSupported"=dword:00000000
"SelectiveSuspendEnabled"=dword:00000000

[David_G_Intel]

Hello Marcus_St

Thank you for posting on the Intel️® communities. To start an investigation, please share with us the Intel® System Support Utility (Intel® SSU) results:

• Download the Intel SSU https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25293/Intel-System-Support-Utility-for-Windows- 
• Open the application and select "Everything" click on "Scan" to see the system and device information. By default, Intel® SSU will take you to the "Summary View".  
• Click on the menu where it says "Summary" to change to "Detailed View".  
• To save your scan, click on "Next", then "Save".  

Regards, 

David G 

Intel Customer Support Technician 

[Marcus_St]

Hello David G,

thanks a lot for your reply.

Please note, that the issue is not Windows related. I went with Dell support through 3 reinstalls, it happens on multiple systems and with different operating systems (Windows and Linux). It is 100% reproducible on all Intel 11th gen devices I could test so far (5 units).

I did the scan successfully. Please let me know how I can transfer the result to you. It seems to contain sensible information and I don't want to publish that for everyone accessible on the internet. Can you for example send me a private message where I can respond?

Many thanks in advanced,

Marcus

[David_G_Intel]

The Intel® SSU does not take any sensitive information from your system, only technical information about the components. We sent an email to the email address associated with your community profile requesting the results in case you are not comfortable sharing them in this thread. To confirm, only 5 systems have been affected so far on your part, is that correct?

To get a better understanding of the problem, please share with us the following:

• Do you experience only Bluetooth problems or WIFI problems too?
• Were you able to have your BT connection in a normal/expected performance before?
• Do you see this problem only on laptops or desktop systems too?
• Are they new computers?
• Is this the original adapter that came pre-installed in your systems or have you changed/installed a new adapter recently?

Finally, make sure the computers are up to date, especially the:

• OS
• Chipset drivers
• BIOS
• WIFI/BT drivers

You can send the report via email but make sure to answer the questions on this forum to help other community members that might have the same problem.

Regards, 

David G 

Intel Customer Support Technician

[Marcus_St]

Hello @David_G_Intel ,

Many thanks for your reply. I've received your mail and responded with the analysis report.

The analysis report at least contains IP addresses (IPv4 and IPv6), Mac addresses of device, Mac address of WiFi base station. That information is enough to localize the report generator by excact location at the time of generating the report.

Regarding your questions:

• Yes, I can confirm that his was tested on "only" 5 devices, but it was 100% of the devices I could test.
• Do you experience only Bluetooth problems or WIFI problems too?
  • No, just Bluetooth problems (constantly, 100% reproducible).
• Were you able to have your BT connection in a normal/expected performance before?
  • Everything except Bluetooth Low Energy input peripherals works as expected on my side (e.g. audio works)
  • Only Bluetooth Low Energy input devices face the issue.
    But this nowadays includes nearly all bluetooth mouse and keyboard models, which is probably the most common usage of bluetooth besides audio.
  • Non Bluetooth Low Energy devices (old bluetooth mouse) also work properly!
• Do you see this problem only on laptops or desktop systems too?
  • I see the problem on all Intel 11th gen laptops I could test (5 devices)
  • I do not have a desktop system with Intel 11th gen to test
• Are they new computers?
  • Yes, they are brand new
  • The issue is fully reproducible with brand new devices, without any software, just latest updates (Driver & BIOS) installed.
  • The issue occurs on Windows AND Linux (Ubuntu)
• Is this the original adapter that came pre-installed in your systems or have you changed/installed a new adapter recently?
  • It is always the original adapter.
  • Most of the times, the adapter is soldered on and can not be exchanged (e.g. XPS 9310)

Please let me know if you need anything else.

Kind regards,

Marcus

[David_G_Intel]

Thank you for the update Marcus. We are currently working on this request, the updates will be posted on the thread.

Regards, 

David G 

Intel Customer Support Technician

[David_G_Intel]

@Marcus_St from the report provided we noticed that the laptop is not running the latest BIOS version. Your current BIOS is 2.2.0 and the latest is 3.0.3 as per Dell's website:

• https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/product-support/product/xps-13-9310-laptop/drivers

Please make sure to update the BIOS, OS, chipset and wireless drivers on both computers. Once you confirm they're up to date please test again and let us know if the issue persists.

Regards, 

David G 

Intel Customer Support Technician

[Marcus_St]

Hello @David_G_Intel 

Thank you for your feedback.

Yes, the BIOS update 3.0.3. was released 3 days ago. All drivers are currently up to date including BIOS, chipset and wireless drivers.

Unfortunately, the issue is not resolved. 

Just two short examples:

• When I just logged in here to the Intel website, I pressed on "login" after entering the credentials, I took a few seconds for the server to process the login, and after that, the mouse was already stuck for a second and the mouse cursor jumps to a new location. You then have to look where the cursor landed and go from there.
• When editing a text here, if I go through the text, put the cursor to some location with the mouse, type 3-4 words and then try to place the cursor on a different location with the mouse, the mouse is also stuck. Same goes for scroll. The issue constantly interferes in very very common use cases.

Kind regards,

Marcus

[David_G_Intel]

Thank you for the update, we will continue to work on this and update you when we have new information.

Regards, 

David G 

Intel Customer Support Technician

[David_G_Intel]

After analyzing all the information provided we highly recommend checking with Dell directly for additional troubleshooting steps.  

Please keep in mind that this thread will no longer be monitored by Intel. Thank you for your understanding.  

Regards, 

David G 

Intel Customer Support Technician 

[Marcus_St · Accepted solution]

Hello @David_G_Intel,

ok, I understand.

The solution was to switch to the successor model which has a Qualcomm wireless chipset.

The result is, that Bluetooth now works like a charm with the new model with Qualcomm hardware.

[jjjjamie]

I have no idea why Intel keep asking people to contact laptop manufacturer for troubleshooting, even this issue occurs on many model from different manufacturers.

Disappointed.

[DDS1]

Agree 100%  This is an Intel problem.  I am on my 4th 11th gen machine and have had identical problems and they are different manufacturers.  10th gen...no problem.  11th gen...a mess.  Pretty pathetic when I am considering just getting a 10th gen machine...actually I should probably just move over to AMD and hopefully I don't have these issues.  Manufacturers need to help users by getting Intel to do something about it as well.

[jjjjamie]

It feels like...betrayed...

At first, I am pretty happy got the new laptop, even I've recommended "Intel Evo Platform" laptop to my friends. Until I encounter this problem.

[DDS1]

I am having the same problems...mouse lag, keyboard lag, I have returned multiple computers because of this and I have realized it is not a manufacturer problem, its an Intel problem and I am tired of nobody taking any responsibility for problems like this.  I am baffled as this hasnt been fixed.  When working with a bluetooth keyboard, if I don't type anything for 5 seconds or more, the keyboard has to "wake up" when I type something new and it lags.  Please take responsibility for this Intel and fix it. 

[Marcus_St]

My guess is that Intel will not do anything about it in the near future. The answer of @David_G_Intel is pretty clear to me. There is nothing to expect. Thread closed.

This might have multiple reasons but I personally think they are aware. There are just too many, identical reports of too many different devices. I don't know if this is an issue with the ax cards in combination with 11th gen Intel processors or of the ax cards itself.

The problem is known at least at Dell. Their answer of the responsible technical department is "everything works according to Intel specifications". They confirmed they can reproduce the issue and I think they are aware that this is an Intel issue. There must also be a reason why they've switched their top of the line model to Qualcomm wireless chips. Typically they are all Intel. Funny thing is, the Qualcomm card is sold by Intel after Intel acquired Rivet networks

If you have a model where you can replace your wifi card (it is often a m.2 card), you could give it a try to replace it with a Qualcomm card if you can find one that fits. Or replace it with an Intel AC 9560 card, its like 15-20USD/EUR. Sure, you don't get WiFi 6...but...well...the question is if you do have the peripherals (Wifi 6 access points/routers) and need it. At least, Bluetooth works (for me that is way more important). But if you have a soldered on card, it's a big issue. As you mentioned, switching the brand with a similar hardware configuration wont help.

[DDS1]

Good info.  When you say top of the line...does that mean they are using the qualcomm in the XPS line?  I hesitate to even try those too so I  may just grab the last gen XPS.  Thanks again!

[Marcus_St]

Yes, but you have to look out for the AX500 chip (which is a Qualcomm) which is I think only the model with 32gig RAM has which was introduced in 2021. It's the newest model they have. I had one of these for a week and can confirm that Bluetooth works perfectly (unfortunately it had other production issues, the case had bumps, the loading light was partly defect, and the keyboard was loose, probably due to the bumps, but Dell reacted quickly and I will receive a new replacement). 

The "older" models introduced in 2020 are still sold with AX1650 (which has the bluetooth issue), but I can imagine, that they will change it in the next iteration.

But...to be honest...if I would not require TB3/4 and Windows I would switch to an AMD Laptop (they're awesome) or M1 Mac. Or get a laptop with decent ports and where you can exchange the wireless card...

[p999]

I have the same problem with an Asus Vivobook S513 EA (Intel i5 1135G7 / Intel AX201 with latest drivers) and no solution given has solved the problem.

My Logitech MX Master 2s mouse and my Sony H910N bluetooth headset are not working properly

[David_G_Intel]

Hello @Marcus_St 

It's important for us to help you resolve this problem, please confirm if you were able to solve it or if you want to continue with troubleshooting in Linux to give you additional steps.

Regards, 

David G 

Intel Customer Support Technician