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Feature Request - implement EDID override

idata
Employee
54,792 Views

Hello,

it would be nice if the Intel Graphics driver would support overriding EDID information like described in this document from Microsoft:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/gg487330 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/gg487330

Why is this needed?

In a common HTPC (multimedia PC) setup with a PC, AVR (audio video receiver) and a television, the EDID information stored in the receiver & television that is passed to the PC determines the video and audio capabilities like: supported resolutions, supported audio formats etc ..

The problem is that very often the system only "sees" the EDID information of the television, and not that of the receiver, and so you don't get support for audio formats like DTS, DTS-HD, Dolby TrueHD that are supported by the receiver ...

The latest Sandy bridge CPU and corresponding chipset support all these sound standards, but they often not useable cause of these EDID problems.

Actually it really does not matter what video card / integrated graphics you use, NVidia and AMD graphics have the same problem, but their drivers

allows people to override the EDID information like is described in the above linked document from Microsoft.

Please implement this stuff, shouldn't be that hard to do, for one of you senior driver programmers it's probably just a few hours of work ...

Thank you

Christian

1 Solution
Bryce__Intel
Employee
29,707 Views

Great news! This completes the platform support. These drivers enable the use of 3rd party EDID applications for internal and external panels on Intel platforms.

Products: 4th Generation (Haswell) - OS: Windows* 7, Windows* 8.1

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/26544/Graphics-Intel-Graphics-Driver-for-Windows-7-8-1-15-36-%3Fproduct%3D81498 Download Intel® Graphics Driver for Windows 7*/8.1* [15.36]

Products: 4th Generation (Haswell) - OS: Windows® 10

Products: 5th Generation (Broadwell) - OS: Windows* 7, Windows* 8.1, Windows® 10

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/26682/Intel-Graphics-Driver-for-Windows-15-40- Download Intel® Graphics Driver for Windows* [15.40]

Products: 6th Generation (Skylake) - OS: Windows* 7, Windows* 8.1, Windows® 10

Products: 7th Generation (Kaby Lake) - OS: Windows® 10

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/26669/Intel-Graphics-Driver-for-Windows-15-45- Download Intel® Graphics Driver for Windows* [15.45]

.:Bryce:.

I started discussion space to continue this topic. I'm locking out this thread as resolved. Thanks all for your input!

/thread/113612 Using 3rd party EDID apps to modify modes

View solution in original post

182 Replies
EP
New Contributor I
2,147 Views

I can't wait for AMD to release their ZEN CPUs and hopefully put a beating on Intel's market share. Simply because of this fiasco that has continued for years I am basing my next desktop build and laptop on AMD CPUs. I have had it with Intel and their BS approach to this issue for power users. My laptop display is rated at 75hz, and runs well beyond that in laptops that utilize Nvidia discrete graphics and doesn't rely on Intel graphics as a routing. You say there are very few users demanding this change or having this "issue/bug" yet there are literally hundreds of threads all over the internet about this exact issue. Your lack of concern and promptness to make the changes necessary clearly show your lack of concern. Five years to re-enable something you've purposely broken is ridiculous. Absolutely unacceptable. I hope AMD crushes you.

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AKoop
Beginner
2,147 Views

I have the same problem, and would really like to see this feature be adopted, especially seeing all other major vendors support this.

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DJurk1
Beginner
2,147 Views

Hi!

Just registered to bump up this thread! I really need it.

I'm considering buying laptop with intel graphic and would like to change screen. If I can't I will look for something else.

Bryce__Intel
Employee
2,147 Views

Okay, here's questions from my latest meeting with Development about this. If any of you can help provide answers it'll help with the request.

  1. [Dev] Customers are saying they know their laptops can support higher refresh rates (75Hz) though it's not available in CUI. How do customers know their laptops support this higher refresh rate? If the argument is that the same laptop also comes with a model that has NV and that model supports additional RR, the OEM may have used different panels so the Intel model may still not support those additional RR. Please provide an EDID of the panel that has a missing Refresh Rate and we can see if it's a bug where the CUI doesn't detect it, we will fix that bug.
  2. [Dev] I can understand if CUI isn't showing all modes for an external monitor which could be a bug with our graphics or with the AVR or TV passing corrupt or incomplete EDID. Can someone provide an example failing EDID? See if you can get EDID's from someone who has an external monitor that is missing refresh rates or modes in the CUI.
    1. [Bryce] They're wanting examples indicating a need for a 'Custom Resolution App'. Let's give them some.

       

Here's what I need if you're willing to help. Please pay attention to the details of what's needed, I don't want them coming back using "incomplete information/explanation" as an excuse.

Respond to this using "Use Advanced Editor" to attach files. Get your system where it's 'failing', (meaning your panel should have a missing refresh rate or mode in CUI) and then capture the logs below.

  1. Intel SSU (System Support Utility): https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25293/Intel-System-Support-Utility Download Intel® System Support Utility
    1. Download the utility
    2. Run the exe and select 'Scan'
    3. Save and include as an attachment
  2. Graphics report (contains most of the EDID info):
    1. Open Intel Graphics Control Panel (CUI) > Options & Support > Information Center
    2. At the bottom right click "Save"
    3. Include as an attachment
  3. If you're willing, please also provide DispDiag:

DispDiag Instructions:

  1. Click on the "Start Menu" -> Type "cmd" -> Then a command shell window will open
  2. In the command shell, type "dispdiag -out %homepath%\Desktop\DispDiag-Intel-Issue.dat" -> The command shell will output something similar to "Dump File: C:\Users\[username]\DispDiag-# -# -# -# .dat"
  3. Locate the .dat file on your desktop and include DispDiag-Intel-Issue.dat as an attachment
JCorn6
Beginner
2,147 Views

Thanks, Bryce. Thank you for coming back to this thread for years. Hopefully it will make some ground soon.

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KS_
New Contributor I
2,147 Views

How do customers know that their laptops can support refresh rates of 75 Hz or higher? Well, lets see. In Linux, you don't disallow EDID overrides, so you can overclock the panels to 75Hz or higher, and tones of people do exactly this. People also have laptops without Optimus/Intel HD with the EXACT SAME PANEL and can overclock them very high - some laptop panels can even go beyond 120 Hz - I've personally seen 160 Hz without errors/glitches/etc. I KNOW they are the same panels, because they are the exact same model number because Clevo is completely transparent about what panels are used in their laptops and let the customers choose, and these same panels are overclocked just fine in Linux. It is entirely your driver that disallows EDID overrides that is the issue here, nothing else.

You guys are losing customers, and you are laying off thousands of workers fairly regularly (hell, you just did a few days ago). If you don't give the customers what they want, this is what happens. We will vote with our money, and more layoffs will happen. If you give people what they want, they will reward you and you won't have to worry about that. It really is that simple.

EP
New Contributor I
2,147 Views

Bryce I have a LG display in my laptop. Its model is LP156WF6 SPB1. This exact laptop display model number is being shipped in other 15.6" laptops that don't use optimus or have an option to disable it and they sell the display as G-Sync. It is G-Sync capable. Users are able to overclock the display and the manufacturer of the laptops (Sager/Clevo) overclock the display at the factory prior to shipment to 75hz. Users have reported being able to overclock much further beyond that once they receive the laptop. Intel is artificially limiting my ability to fully utilize my display to its maximum potential. Why do we want this overclock/unlocked edid overrides? We want to use our displays to their full potential and not some artificial limitation being imposed by Intel! Change it or lose customers in the future. I promise this isn't the only website/forum on this topic. Head over to Notebook Review Forums and there are literally hundreds of people asking about that at some time in the past and people recommending users avoid Optimus and any laptop that utilizes Intel graphics.

Bryce__Intel
Employee
2,147 Views

Perfect example Skyward, I'll use this to report to Devs.

I dig your SN btw

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MLee58
Novice
2,063 Views

Hey Bryce, do you have any updates for us?

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AKoop
Beginner
2,147 Views

also check all the forums from hundreds of people with home theatre systems, that cannot make their setup work with a Intel graphics driver.

Note that I'm not a home theater person myself, so I have no idea about their exact problems, but I have spend quite some time on their forums to resolve my own problems with a replacement laptop screen, and I know they are dying for custom EDIDs to make it all work i.e. making the graphics card send out the right video signal to make full use of their screens, even though an AVR is in between.

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RCocc
Beginner
2,063 Views

Bryce, it is not only about video/panel settings that people want to override with the edid override feature.

Many have a computer with no optical (SPDIF) out, and a receiver with no HDMI in, so have a setup like this:

Computer > HDMI > TV > SPDIF > Receiver

With that setup, most of the time, the TV has no Dolby Digital 5.1 (AC-3) support, so windows thinks that the audio capabilities are what the tv shows, and we lose our DD 5.1.

Now, with an xbox or ps3, it works, and even with some apps that have some inner hacks (plex media player), but mostly, it does not work.

With EDID override working, we get it working with NVIDIA or AMD, but are doomed with INTEL.

I can switch my HTPC to linux, and i read it works, but its hard leaving windows.

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DMitc4
Novice
2,063 Views

Whats happening Bryce. Any updates? Its been weeks and still no fix?

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Bryce__Intel
Employee
2,147 Views

Ok ipkpjersi

So do you have a config you'd like to provide details on as I requested above, or are you just venting? I'm trying to help and comments like yours, while informative, kinda, don't serve to further my cause of moving this forward to a solution. When it comes down to it, it's about data, that's what engineering can work with. Let's get them the data so changes can happen. If you're still upset, PM me and I'll listen to all of what you have to say, I totally understand and am here for you, and yes I'm serious.

To address some of what you said, Linux drivers may be able to force resolutions not available in EDID, which means they're not truly supported by the panel but you're forcing them anyway. By unsupported that could mean the panel manufacturer didn't feel the panel could be warranted against flaws that occur at that config, or they didn't perform the QA on it needed to guarantee performance. Or, it could mean they tested it and it wasn't up to performance standards or could even harm the panel. Either way, it's not supported. Can a CPU be forced to overclock beyond its limits stated by manufacturers? SURE! But unless it's made for it, there are chances you'll burn it when running it for extended lengths. So just because you can force a panel to limits not covered under EDID, doesn't mean you should, and manufacturers who have to RMA panels set their EDID's where they are for a reason. IF there's a panel which should output at a RR that the Intel driver isn't making available, that's a bug and I want to get it fixed.

As for Optimus, I already stated above that units with third party Gfx could use different panels rated for higher res and RR, even though they're the same laptop model. Again, get me the EDID showing yours is supposed to support it and it isn't.

For those running an AVR setup where the AVR isn't passing the panel EDID correctly, again, please get me the EDID or state what your config is so I can pass it on to Developers. Thanks

KS_
New Contributor I
2,147 Views

Yeah it was just venting, but at the same time, I believe my information to be fully accurate. You say that it's forcing resolutions and refresh rates that are unsupported mean that they are not guaranteed which is true, but customers should at least be able to have the choice. One of the big reasons why Intel got as popular as they did is because they allowed for CPUs to be overclocked. If they did not allow for CPUs to be overclocked, and AMD was the only company that allowed for CPUs to be overclocked, AMD might have won the CPU war. You could say that overclockers are just a niche market and I suppose that's fair, but at the same time these overclockers are willing to pay a premium for better parts that overclock higher so I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up being a higher market share and more "valuable" customers to companies like Intel and AMD. Of course you could damage your panel by overclocking it, just like you could damage a CPU by overclocking it, or RAM by overclocking it, or your GPU by overclocking it. People who overclock are willing to deal with the possible repercussions in exchange for the best possible performance, and people who overclock are completely aware of the risk that they are taking. The choice should be up to the customers what they want to do with their hardware, there should not be arbitrary limits imposed.

"As for Optimus, I already stated above that units with third party Gfx could use different panels rated for higher res and RR, even though they're the same laptop model".

No, I am telling you people overclock the refresh rate of the exact same model of panel in a non-Optimus laptop versus an Optimus laptop, and also overclock the refresh rate of the exact same model of panel in Linux on the exact same Optimus laptop.

I'm merely sharing my insight. I'm not saying that my laptop panel is rated to run at higher than 60 Hz, because I'm not sure, but I've seen laptop's with panels rated at 60 Hz overclocked to 120 Hz and beyond. TN panels overclock extremely well, and IPS panels do not overclock extremely well which is why you often see 120 Hz TN panels but usually only 75 Hz IPS panels. I have no doubt that my TN panel would overclock extremely well (likely beyond 75 Hz) in my Optimus laptop if Intel HD drivers allowed me to do so via EDID overrides. AMD and Nvidia allow customers to try their luck at this, Intel does not, and both myself and everyone else here want that changed. There have been plenty of threads where people OCed panels and yet I have yet to see one mention of a brick anywhere among those panels. I don't really see any downsides for allowing this.

KKova3
Novice
2,147 Views

Bryce@Intel: I think we (users) and you (I mean You Bryce, I don't know about the devs/engineers) aren't talking about the same thing. I understand what you mean but this isn't what we want! We want override capability (that's why it's called EDID override) that all the other competitors gave us many-many years ago.

We don't talk about legal/warranty issues here.

Let's see 2 examples and if you want I will gather every info about the 2nd if you feel it will solve my problem.

@ arvest: I'm a multimedia user. As @ Replete said it's about refresh rate.

0. This ticket and this one Bryce@Intel, if you want I'll spend time to gather all info about the 2nd case, but we are not talking about recognizing correctly edid features now but to give the ability to the poor user to able to do what he wants.

AScis1
New Contributor I
2,147 Views

I agree with ipkpjersi

 

 

You Intel should give customers the choice to overcome imposed limits. You say "they are limited for a reason" and that's true but all ipkpjersi says is scientifically true too, no doubt about that.

 

A lot of people like me choose Intel for OC reasons, and the same applies to nvidia and AMD. They both give the opportunity to use your own hardware as you like (as EU Justice Court has already stated multiple times) letting the customer use a different resolution AND refresh rate.

 

Just put a disclaimer wich declines every accountability of Producer and/or seller if the Display becomes unusable, it is more than sufficient from a legal point of view (I'm a lawyer in Italy)

 

The matter is not only "fixing problems" as you, Bryce, correctly pointed out here, but ALSO give opportunities to make a better use of the hardware at the same time.

 

I personally use an Optimus Clevo P157SMA with a HUGE calculation power underwhelmed by a TN panel capped @ 60HZ and it is for warranty reasons as you say but my seller warranty is already expired and Intel has still not given me the freedom to choose to use my hardware as I want.

 

Thank you for your consideration, I really appreciate it.
KS_
New Contributor I
2,147 Views

Hi oile,

I use the exact same laptop as you - Clevo P157SMA. I would love for Intel to allow us to use our laptops to their full potential. Hopefully they will allow this to happen.

Thanks for your insight.

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idata
Employee
2,147 Views

This issue is not just about refresh rate overclocking.

The driver doesn't even allow lower refresh rates like 24hz.

24hz or 23.976hz is essential to viewing film without 3:2 pulldown. Every wondered why your favourite netflix show looks crap in panning shots? That's why.

The EDID standard isn't perfect, and I've seen many monitors behave clumsily due to slightly fudged settings.

On linux, or almost any non-Intel graphics card, you can just set the correct settings and use it.

I actually can't believe you guys have to persuade your own company to finish an incomplete software feature ... that almost everyone else does not have an issue with.

I cannot wait for AMD's new gear, I will avoid Intel for as long as I can then. I've had a 1440p monitor sat on my desk doing nothing just because of a minor feature that has been ignored for 5 years by a corporation making billions a year in profit.

This nonsense is class action worthy.

Good luck

MFros2
Beginner
2,147 Views

I look after a Digital Signage network of 2000 Media Player PCs. There are many scenarios where the screen is not plugged in. Under Intel I am unable to Remote Access onto the PC to diagnose issues. This is because if no screen is present in Windows the displays is black. Under AMD and Nvidia I can set the EDID which means if the screen is unplugged I can still Remote Access onto the PC.

Another scenario is when the PC is used with no screen ever being present such as when the PC is used for running tracking analytic software. In this case a PC is configured in the office and sent to site with just a camera plugged in to perform analytics. Management of the PC is performed by remote access to the PC. Intel based chips do not work in this scenario.

My gripe is that Intel and or Microsoft should allow Windows to operate even with no monitor detected. I know I can buy HDMI EDID emulators for the second scenario, however, this does not help with the first scenario.

idata
Employee
2,063 Views

I'm sure the staff around here are fed up of my frustrated outbursts, but I now return calmly asking is there an update to this problem yet?

AScis1
New Contributor I
2,063 Views

This situation is a shame.

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