eye strain

[CNeub]

hello,

I have a Notebook with Intel Core i7 4710 - Intel Graphics 4600 and external Nvidia Gforce GTX 850M for about 2 weeks now. I connect the Notebook on two different places per HDMI with nearly three year old lg monitors. With my old Notebook (Intel Core2Duo and Nvidia Gforce 9500GT) I had not any problems with this two monitors. However when I connect one of the two monitors with my new Notebook I get eye strain and headache. Of course I use the right resolution FullHD and tried out different brigthness and contrast adjustments in intel graphic properties. OS is Windows 7 Prof x64 and the newest drivers are installed. Version:15.33.22.64.3621

Nearly two months ago I purchased an other Notebook with Intel Core i7 4700MQ - Intel Graphics 4600 and Nvidia Gforce GT755 M. I had the same problem there and so I sent it back, because I thought that the Notebook has an defect. I tried out Windows 7 and Windows 8 and had the same eye problems in the two different OS.Now I do not really know what the problem exactly is, because I have these problems with two different Notebooks on two different external LG Monitors and the integrated Displays of the Notebooks. But I thinkt the problem is the Intel HD 4600. Maybe that there is something wrong with the driver.Do you have any ideas about this? Couse I can't purchase and send back new Notebooks all the time.

Sorry for my bad english

[TYama28]

Hi,

I replaced the LCD panel on my X1Carbon, expecting it eliminates eye strain. No luck. Even the new panel still causes eye strain to me. The new panel has no PWM issue; it is better than the previous one, though.

I found this article: http://annystudio.com/misc/anti-aliased-fonts-hurt/

I started feeling eye strain when I stared sub-pixel font sample in that page. I found this:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/ja-jp/library/aa970267(v=vs.110).aspx

I tried to set ClearTypeLevel to 0, since it uses gray scale instead of sub-pixel. (needed to reboot to take the effect of registry change). I verified Firefox browser fonts now gray scaled. It is much better than sub-pixel. (BTW Setting ClearTypleLevel=64 (100) caused very bad eye strain. I think it can be one of the cause)

A bad thing is changing the registry still doesnot eliminate sub-pixel font on the screen. Explorer and Desktop still sub-pixeled. I am using Win10 64bit.

However, I think it is worth to check whether your font is sub-pixeled. You can try it safely (without modifying registry):

1.Run Magnifier tool in Windows, check the font is sub-pixeled (if the edge of font has color other than black, it is sub-pixeled)

2.Run "Adjust ClearType text" wizard, Choose any preferable font at 1/5 and 2/5 pages.

3.Choose the right font at 3/5 page. This sets ClearTypeLevel=0.

4.Choose any prefrable font at 4/5 and 5/5 pages

5.Reboot system, run Magnifier and check fonts.

For reference, selecting each font at "Adjust ClearType text" wizard corresponds to the following registry values:

1/5 PixelStructure

2/5 GammaLevel

3/5 ClearTypeLevel

4/5 EnahncedContrastLevel

5/5 TextContrastLevel

One hypothesis of the cause of eye strain with Intel driver is, ClearType depends on DirectWrite feature, which uses GPU for drawing fonts on the screen. If Intel driver behaves differently at each version, the fonts on the screen can vary, which may cause eye strain.

[JGold7]

Hey Folks,

Has anyone tried the "Ditherig" app, available at the following link:

http://kawamoto.no-ip.org/henteko/myapp_en.html freeware - henteko.co.jp!

It allows user selectable dithering modes. This eliminates the FRC (temporal/temporo-spatial dithering) on Intel chips (and only Intel chips!).

It has made several laptops tolerable for me, although not all.

The ones where it didn't help as much as I would have liked, I suspect that there is some new compositing issue at play similar to whatever it is that Microsoft did in Windows 10 Anniversary Edition. They changed the software compositing and it is harder to look at than the previous builds with identical drivers and hardware.

It would be nice if any of you could verify whether this works or not, and perhaps Intel could look at this piece of freeware and determine what they might have done that would trigger these outputs.

[DKour]

I've tried ditherig on a macbook with Windows 7 and 10, but it didn't help me much, as I mention here:

[JBeng3]

I recently got this installed, can you share the options you selected that helped? Did you have to reboot to see the differences?

[JBeng3]

Another eye strain sufferer here. System specs

HP Elitebook 840 G2

Processor: Intel Core i5-5300U @ 2.3Ghz

Ram: 8 GB

OS: Window 7 64 bit

Graphics info:

Intel HD Graphics 5500

Driver Date: 12/15/2015

Driver version: 20.19.15.4352

[JDitt3]

Eye strain and dizziness gone!

Finally! I'm glad i stumbled on this thread. I had been dealing with dizziness and vertigo from eye strain since 2009.

In the morning, after a good night's sleep, I would be fine. After a few hours in front of my computer, the dizziness would become unbearable and I would have to quit for the day. The eye strain from my computer use also made me super-sensitive to bright light and fluorescent lights.

After reading every post in this thread, on a whim, uninstalled my Intel video drivers. 5 weeks later I was completely symptom free.

Guys... definitely give this a try. For you Windows 10 guys, search for Device Manager. Drop down on Display adapters and right click uninstall the Intel drivers. Windows 10 will then default to its own display drivers. Don't just disable the Intel drivers or they will automatically update. Also, on re-boot be sure to uninstall again as with each reboot Windows 10 will re-install them for you.

It it took a couple of weeks for my eyes to recover, but I'm now at 100% again.

Feel free to ask any questions.

[SMohd2]

@jeff5311 Good to hear this thread has helped someone solve their eye strain issue. I am also glad to hear that Windows 10's standard VGA driver equivalent (called Microsoft Basic Display Adapter?) works without giving eye strain. Can you help check something, using Windows 10's Basic Display Adapter, I assume the brightness control and the VGA/HDMI/display out features are not available too? And what is your intel graphics model, if you can share?

On another note, just like to share something that I discovered. Recently I got the chance to test one of Lenovo's latest model of laptop, which is the Lenovo X1 Yoga, which is using Windows 7, i7 with Intel HD 520 graphics, with 1440x2560 resolution display panel. This laptop has PWM, but increasing the brightness to 100% eliminates the flickering. When using the laptop, I still get eye strain, so that means the Intel graphics driver is also causing the eye strain. So installed the Standard VGA Adapter. Here is how I do it:

How to install / use the Standard VGA adapter :

Start -> Control Panel -> Device Manager -> Display Adapters -> Right click on Intel HD 520 -> Update Driver Software -> Browse My Computer for Driver Software -> Let me pick from list of device drivers on my computer -> Select Standard VGA Graphics Adapter -> Click Next and proceed to restart your laptop.

Usually this will work, with PWM eliminated and using Standard VGA adapter, I usually can use the laptop without eye strain (although the brightness will be at maximum). But somehow, on this laptop, when the Standard VGA adapter is used, the display would reduce the brightness by itself to something like 60% brightness, and because of that, PWM flickering is back. I am not sure if this is because of the laptop, or what, but I suspect this is a "feature" of the Intel HD 520 graphics. It cant be the standard VGA driver because this driver is dated 21/6/2006 i.e. they have not made any changes to the standard VGA driver since 2006. So that's why I suspect it is the Intel graphics that is automatically reducing the brightness of the display when using standard VGA adapter.

This is bad news. If all other newer Intel HD graphics has the same "feature" i.e. automatically reducing the brightness of the screen to 50% or 60% when using Standard VGA adapter, this would mean even this workaround will not work anymore. At least not to those who also suffer from PWM-related eye strain like me.

But if Ronald_Intel and his team can develop a Standard VGA driver that can control the brightness, then this will solve this problem too. Hope to hear from progress and some good news from Ronald_Intel. We are all counting on you. 🙂

[CNeub]

Hey Kray_62

I found your Link and your mentionend driver - however I've no idea how to extract the icc file. Also the question is if there is any other file which manages the colors.

[SMohd2]

Sorry, been busy with work lately. Only now I have the chance to really test it out. So here is what I found so far. On my loaner laptop (Lenovo T440p), there is PWM, which I have used the work-around solution it by setting the brightness to 100%. This is not ideal, as the screen is too bright to use, but at least no more flickering. Now after using the laptop for a few hours, I do get a mild but very noticeable eye strain. The more / longer I use the laptop, it seems the eye strain becomes more noticeable. So this is my baseline.

I tried to change the ICC profile, but not sure how to do it. Here is the screenshots of my current icc color profiles:

Color Management

Color Management - All profiles

These are all from the pre-installed Monitor Display Driver:

I do not know how to extract the icc profile from another driver, and insert/replace it with the ones in this driver. If anyone knows, please share it here.

[SMohd2]

I looked at my old laptop, the Lenovo T420s which I can use without eye strain, I tried to see how do I extract the icc profile from there and install it in the loaner laptop. But I noticed that my T420s is using the Generic PnP monitor driver. If you recall, we get eye strain from Intel graphics driver, but when using the Standard VGA driver, no more eye strain. So maybe it is the same for monitor driver as well. So on my loaner laptop, I disabled the OEM/Lenovo monitor driver, and used the Generic PnP driver instead. Here's how I do it:

Control Panel -> Device Manager -> Monitor -> select monitor and right click -> Update Driver Software -> Browse my computer for driver software -> Let me pick from a list of device drivers from my computer -> Generic PnP Monitor -> click Next.

When I use the Generic PnP monitor driver on this laptop, I do noticed a very noticeable relief in eye strain. It's like the eye strain is significantly reduced. I need to test it out for a few days, maybe a week to see if the eye strain really reduced or not, but it looks promising so far. Because when I switch the monitor driver back to the Lenovo's driver, I definitely feel the eye strain more. When I switch back to the Generic PnP monitor driver, noticeably less eye strain. This is something that you might want to try. Give it a go and use the Generic PnP monitor driver, and see if it eliminates or reduce your eye strain or not. Be sure to "get rid" of PWM first, if your laptop had PWM. And please share your findings here.

[SMohd2]

Any updates from Intel? Can you share what are you guys doing now to find a solution to this issue?

Can you please try develop that standard VGA driver with brightness control and video out feature? Give us something, a temporary solution, while you look for a permanent solution.

[Bryce__Intel]

Hi all,

We have been monitoring the response from the community since the original report arose and have offered several possible solutions. We take the matter seriously and are working across Intel groups to further review community reports to help identify root causes. This includes assessing the circumstances around which the issue arises, self-reporting from users, and our own internal testing of several devices to replicate the issue. In addition to internal testing to replicate the issue and continuing to evaluate feedback from impacted users, we are working to identify visual differences between various system configurations. Our next checkpoint is targeting end of quarter, which is 6/30/17; if we have any updates to share prior to then we will certainly do so.

.:Bryce:.

[SMohd2]

Hi Bryce,

Thanks for the update. The solution that Intel offered before unfortunately does not solve the problem, but good to know that Intel is still working on a solution for this.

Hope a real solution can be found soon, even a temporary one, because for years it has been extremely difficult to find a new laptop which I can use without eye strain. If I just pick any new laptop that uses latest Intel graphics card (e.g. Intel Graphics 520), I will get eye strain. If the Intel team that is investigating this gets the same (new) laptop, to be honest I am not sure how they can "replicate" it. In this case, "replicating" it just means switching on the laptop. But that would mean so many variables, and no point of reference. At least from my limited knowledge of things.

If I may offer to help. I have and old (almost 5 years old) Lenovo T420s laptop which I am still using today as my primary office laptop. This laptop is the one that I gave in my example earlier in this thread, where when I used the old 2011 driver, I get no eye strain. But when I upgraded the graphics driver to the 2013 one, I get eye strain. When I re-install the old 2011 driver back, no more eye strain. So on this laptop the cause of the eye strain is definitely the graphics driver (and not other factors). On a different laptop, there may be other factors that is causing the eye strain as well, can't know for sure. But for this laptop, at least we know for sure. So there is something in the newer 2013 driver that is causing the eye strain, which till today we do not know what it is yet.

Since this laptop has and can use two version of graphics driver - one that cause eye strain and one that does not, so there is a point of reference, something to compare with.

Ideally you should have my laptop to test in your lab. But I can't give you my laptop, as this laptop is the only laptop that I can use without eye strain and I am using it for to earn a living.

But I can find and purchase a used Lenovo laptop with similar spec as mine, install both 2011 and 2013 driver and test it out. If both graphic drivers can work on the used laptop, and if after I test it, I confirm that on that laptop the 2011 driver does not give me eye strain, and the 2013 driver do give me eye strain (meaning I have successfully replicated the issue on the used laptop), then I will ship the laptop to you, together with the 2 graphic drivers.

Then you guys will have one working laptop that has been verified by an eye strain sufferer, which contain these 2 sets of drivers. Your team can test both drivers on the laptop and investigate the difference between them, and see what has changed or what (new graphic feature) has been added to the new driver that is causing these eye strain. Hopefully this can lead to the development of a new driver that does not cause eye strain.

And since I have a similar/identical laptop with me, if you develop a beta driver, you can send me the link and I can download and test it on my laptop. I can help to test and verify if the beta graphics driver has eliminated the eye strain or not.

I am willing to spend my own money to buy a used laptop with similar/same spec as mine, install the two drivers, test it out, and if everything can be replicated in the used laptop, then will ship it to you, hoping that this will help you guys to find the solution faster. If you are interested, please PM me to discuss this further.

[OVyno]

I can confirm everything that Kray_62 stated in his post. I tried to change a laptop for 6 times for last 3 years. Everytime I have a eye strain with new Intel videocard (and therefore with new Intel driver). On my old Asus UL30A I do not have eyestrain at all with old driver (ver. 8.15.10.2021 that is 2009 year) and DO HAVE with ver 8.15.10.2869 driver (2012 year) on the same laptop with Windows 7! In Windows 10 I DO have an eyestrain as it has new drivers. So the problem is definitely in Intel drivers. Please continue to work on it as I can't by new laptop because of this problem for years!

[Bryce__Intel]

Hi Kray_62,

I sent you a PM about your proposal. Thanks!

[SMohd2]

Hi Bryce@Intel

Thanks for the PM. Glad that we can proceed with the plan to test the 2 drivers I posted earlier in this thread (in Page 4 specifically). So the plan as per my post above is a GO.

Yesterday I managed to find and purchased an identical laptop to the one that I am using now, which is the Lenovo T420s. So here are the 2 laptops side by side:

The one on the left (with this Intel thread on the screen) is the T420s which is my primary office laptop, and one on the right is the used T420s which I just bought yesterday.

Both laptops have the same specs:

• Intel Core i5 (2nd Gen) 2520M / 2.5 GHz
• Intel HD Graphics 3000
• LCD with LED backlight
• Resolution 1600 x 900 (HD+)
• Windows 7 Pro (Service Pack 1)

Some differences in hardware is that mine (on the left) has 1TB HDD and 8GB RAM, whereas the used T420s (on the right) has 320Gb HDD, 4GB RAM and a fingerprint scanner. But these will not affect the testing and performance of the display drivers.

I am now going to do the settings and install all the drivers on the used T420s so that it is identical to my own, before commencing testing. I will need some time to test the laptop, before I can confirm that I have successfully replicated the issue on the used T420s. From my experience, the eye strain builds up over time, so need to use the laptop for certain period of time before I can safely confirm that it causes eye strain or not.

Will update my progress here on regular basis.

[SMohd2]

Hi Bryce@Intel

Some updates. I have replicated the issue on the used Lenovo T420s, which now has the following graphic drivers installed, and the result of my eye strain test:

• 8.15.10.2476 - driver date 9/8/2011 - no eye strain, I can look at the screen for hours
• 9.17.10.3347 - driver date 31/10/2013 - eye strain after 15-30 minutes of looking at the screen
• 9.17.10.4229 - driver date 26/5/2015 - eye strain after 15-30 minutes of looking at the screen
• Standard VGA driver

The 2015 driver came with the laptop, and I was not sure how to remove it, so I just leave it there. I did try that (2015) driver, and it does give me eye strain. But I am using the 2013 driver as the driver for me to test and verify that I get eye strain when using it.

The screenshot below shows the laptop is currently using the 2011 driver (left box). The box on the right shows the list of available drivers, which is shown when clicked Update Driver -> Browse My Computer for Driver Software -> Let Me Pick From a list of Device Drivers on my Computer. The 2011 driver is the one listed as "Intel(R) HD Graphics Family".

(Click to see the larger size. Save the photo to see the full size.)

Bryce, I will ship this laptop to you. Will send you a PM you on the shipping arrangement.

[SMohd2]

Bryce@Intel

Some things to note. The Lenovo T420s laptop has screen flickering, which is caused by Pulse Width Modulation (PWM). PWM is also a known source of eye strain, and it does give me eye strain as well. So it is important to "eliminate" this source of eye strain first before doing any testing on the graphics driver. Otherwise, we would not know the eye strain is caused by what.

Luckily on this laptop model, the PWM can be eliminated by increasing the brightness to 100%. Actually, when purchasing this used laptop, I discovered that increasing the brightness to 100% alone is not enough to eliminate the PWM. PWM is still present even at 100% brightness. At first I thought I had a different/bad batch of display panel. Then I realized that some settings need to be changed first, specifically in the power options (which I forgot because it has been so long since I changed any settings in my own laptop).

So from Control Panel -> Power Options -> Change plan settings (from Balanced or Power Saver, whichever you selected) -> Change Advanced Power Settings.

Scroll down until you see Intel Graphics Settings - > Intel Graphics Power Plan, and change both On Battery and Plugged In to MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE. See screenshot below.

If you set the setting to other than Maximum Performance (e.g. if you select Balanced, or Maximum Battery Life), then increasing the brightness to 100% will not eliminate PWM. Only when Maximum Performance is selected, and increase the brightness to 100%, will the PWM be eliminated. All the tests done on the graphics driver above was done on Maximum Performance.

The other settings / configuration being used for in the used laptop to match the settings in my own laptop:

Brightness always 100%. Dim level is also set to 100%.

I have to use my laptop at 100% brightness all the time, which is quite bright. Luckily the maximum brightness of this laptop is only 240 nits. Some newer laptops have brightness over 340 nits! Even at 240 nits is very bright, so I use a software call PowerStrip (v3.9) to "artificially" reduce the brightness without using PWM, from here:

http://entechtaiwan.com/util/ps.shtm http://entechtaiwan.com/util/ps.shtm

Basically I edited the Color Profile to reduced the gamma and contrast, which helps to reduce the overall brightness of the screen. The Powerstrip software is always running on my machine. So for apple to apple comparison and testing purposes, I have also installed this in the used laptop, so that I can replicate exactly what is in my own laptop in the used laptop.

So to the Intel engineers who will be investigating and testing the solution, you should keep all the settings intact (e.g. 100% brightness, Intel Graphics Power Plan set to Maximum Performance etc), so that other sources of eye strain are eliminated, and the only cause of eye strain left is the Intel Graphics driver. Plus when I test any possible solution, it will be on the same setting as you will have on the laptop at your end.

[SMohd2]

Hi Bryce@Intel

Just to update, on May 25, I purchased another unit of a used Lenovo Thinkpad T420s. So now I have 3 identical laptops:

The one on the left is my office-issued Lenovo Thinkpad T420s laptop. The middle is the T420s I bought earlier, and one on the right is the new (used) T420s that I bought on May 25. The reason I bought another unit is for my own extra unit. I figured I do not want to use my office-issued laptop to do these testing, as I dont want to take the risk of anything happening, like messing up the settings or making some irreversible damage that might cause me to start getting eye strain on my office laptop.

Besides, since it is hard to find a good condition used T420s (since this model is already 5 years old), so it is also good for me to have one extra unit as backup for myself, as this is the only laptop model I can use without eye strain.

This is actually better for testing purpose. Putting aside my office laptop, we now have 2 units of Lenovo Thinkpad T420s, both with freshly installed Windows 7 Pro. Settings on both laptops are identical to each other. Both have the 3 drivers installed, and I have tested all 3 drivers in both laptops for some time now to make sure consistent eye strain (for 2013 and 2015 driver) and no eye strain (for 2011 driver).

One T420s unit will be with you/Intel team, and one unit will be with me here. And because I am not using my unit for my office work, you can ask me to try out anything, install/change/delete anything on my (second) T420s, even things not confined to graphics driver. And I can test the new setting or beta driver and provide feedback to you if it reduces or eliminates the eye strain or not.

Bryce@Intel, I will ship one unit of the Lenovo Thinkpad T420s laptop to you this week. Waiting for you to reply to my PM on the shipping address.

[SMohd2]

Hi Ronald_Intel . Thanks for reaching out to me. I have shipped the Lenovo T420s laptop to Intel. Should arrive in about 4-6 working days. I've PM you the tracking number.

[OVyno]

Dear Bryce,

As you mentioned you had a checkpoint date 6/30/17. Do you have any results by this time? Thank you for your answer!