Intel Optane H10 32GB+512GB - BIOS detect failure - Firmware defect?

[cassiel]

Hi, I already scanned this subforum (and the web) for similar threads, but none seems to fit my problem. Anyway, sorry for maybe asking stupid questions. I was working normally on my computer, all of a sudden the screen frooze. According to "Have you tried to turn it off an on again?" I switch the computer off and on again, but BIOS would give me constantly an error not detecting the SSD anymore. Looking into BIOS itself confirmed this. The SSD behaves stone dead. I was at two local data recovery companies that could not help me. Last diagnosis was: firmware faulty. I'm already in contact with a company recommended on https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000006357/memory-and-storage.html but before I make it flyover the Atlantic ocean I want to be sure to have checked all options. I do have a backup of the most crucial data, but for data consistency and less valuable data I'd prefer a recovery. Money doesn't matter in the 1st place. System details: Dell Inspiron 17 7706 2in1 BIOS: AHCI (Optane not activated, was visible as extra memory nvme1) OS: Debian GNU/Linux on a luks-encrypted partiton (nvme0p8) (dual boot with Windows 10) see also: https://scholvien.com/pics/intel-optane/ My questions: * what kind of errors could be possible? * which error would be fatal? resp. what chances are to data recovery? (at least the luks-encrypted partition (300GB NAND only)) * Is one of the data recovery companies mentioned above 1st choice? any other choice or checks I can make? e.g. boot a linux from USB an try to detect an read from this linux? Thanks in advance for any help.

[IntelSupport]

Hi cassiel,

Thank you for posting in Intel Community.

I would like to confirm with you that you need clarifications for below:

What kind of errors could be possible?

Which error would be fatal? 

What chances are to data recovery? (at least the luks-encrypted partition (300GB NAND only)) 

Is one of the data recovery companies mentioned above 1st choice? any other choice or checks I can make? 

If it's possible can you please clarify exactly what you need?

Thank you.

Regards,

Hayat

Intel Customer Support

[cassiel]

Hi Hayat,

Thank you for recognizing my request.

I try to clarify my request by putting things differently:

I'm looking here for someone who has technical  knowledge/experience with the H10 Optane SSD, especially with this kind of total failure all of a sudden. Which components of the H10 could cause such a failure? Controller? firmware? other? memory itself? Are there any technical hurdles like lost key of hardware encryption that would make data recovery impossible? or: is it possible to bypass the faulty component? Anyway: how can such thing happen? does this happen often? Does it make a difference for recovery that the SSD was running on Linux with the Optane function deactivated?

This is the 1st time I experienced a data loss by hardware failure in decades (started with computers in the 1980ies), so it's quite uncommen to me. So I'd like to know more about the cause in order preventing to make it happen again.  And all these information would help me to better understand what the data recovery company, I contacted, will be doing with my SSD. In the end it's up to me to decide on all the information I can get.

I hope that explains my request better resp. that's all I can think of. Feel free to ask what kind of specific additional information do you need to help me.

Best regards

P.S. Please excuse the lack of paragraphs in my posting, but they all disappeared after submitting my text. I hope it doesn't happen again with this text.

[IntelSupport]

Hello cassiel,

Thank you for the clarification.

Before that , we would like to update you that H10 Optane is already End Of Life (EOL) which means it is not supported anymore.

We will try to check and clarify some things for you as well. Kindly allow us some time for that.

Other than that, can you please confirm whether the H10 Optane is prebuild in your system or it was bought separately.

Kindly contact the Original Equipment Manufacturer(OEM) if it is prebuilt in your system since they might be able to further help in regard of the BIOS issue.

Please let us know if you have any questions.

Regards,

Hayat

Intel Customer Support

[IntelSupport]

Hi cassiel,

Upon checking with the engineering team, it is confirmed that if you are trying to look for a replacement please contact your OEM since your unit is identified as Dell SKU - an OEM unit.

To answer the questions:

It's hard to know which component failed. It could potentially be the controller (or firmware in the controller) as it's no longer recognized by the BIOS, but it's not possible to say that for sure.

Another detail to consider is that the Intel Optane H Series is a hybrid device with a portion of NAND SSD and a portion for Optane Memory.

These devices are intended for a specific usage (which is acceleration) under a specific configuration. 

Your configuration was not a valid configuration for this device, and results are unexpected. Please refer to this link for more details.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000056187/memory-and-storage/intel-optane-memory.html

Kindly let us know if you have further questions.

Else if none, please confirm the thread closure.

Thank you.

Regards,

Hayat

Intel Customer Support

[cassiel]

Hi Hayat,

yes, the H10 is OEM pre-built hardware, but the rest of the computer including BIOS is working as expected and I'm not looking for a replacement here, but the cause of the failure and its meaning towards data recovery. I don't see how the OEM to be of any help on the latter.

Concerning the faulty component of the SSD I'm not expecting a 100% accurate prediction of the cause, but which experiences Intel does have with this kind of failure and the consequences in respect to data recovery. This is still my unanswered question.

Concerning my dual boot configuration: yes, the H10 Optane memory does not support dual boot resp. GNU/Linux, I found out myself. So I switched to AHCI Mode in BIOS, the Optane memory function was deactivated and its memory showed up as an extra drive with 32GB which I did not use. Then it was possible to install Debian and the H10 main memory did work as a normal NAND SSD as expected, Windows and Linux - until failure. That the Optane function did not work with dual boot is nothing I complain about. I did not miss the acceleration. Or which specifications of the H10 makes it necessary to use it with the Optane acceleration in order to avoid failures like this? Here some experienced explanation would be helpful as well.

Concerning the EOL of the H10: I did not buy this computer ten years ago, but less than three years and it was in mint condition, close to brand new. I do expect my hardware working longer than that. It may be Intel's legal right to end support the way Intel wants to, but it's still Intel's - probably proprietary and patent  - technology. So I think it's my legitimate interest as a customer to use it longer than Intel's EOL and Intel's - at least - moral responsibility to help as much as possible. Nothing but fair, isn't it?

best regards

[IntelSupport]

Hello cassiel,

We would like to clarify that the product has been discontinued and has reached an End Of Life (EOL). However, the technical and warranty support is still available. You can also refer here to check all discontinued products : Customer Support Options for Discontinued Intel® Optane™ Solid-State Drives and Modules

Regarding your questions, we are checking with the engineering team and will provide you with more details soon.

Kindly let us know if you have any questions.

Thank you.

Regards,

Hayat

Intel Customer Support

[Irwan_Intel]

Hello Cassiel,

As explained in previous post, the Optane H Series has two parts: one which is a NAND storage portion and another one which is the Optane portion. A system that supports the Optane H Series will see the two parts separate as if they were two individual storage devices. You can use the Optane H Series this way (as separate storage devices), however this is not its intended usage. The intended usage, which is the valid configuration from Intel, is to use the Optane portion to accelerate the NAND storage portion. This is noted in the User Guide:

"Until acceleration is enabled, the operating system will show both portions of the module as individual storage devices. Using the module in this state is not validated or supported; results are not guaranteed."

As the device is no longer recognized by the system, it's not possible to further debug the potential root cause of the issue (review the SMART attributes). However, the configuration you was using is not validated (using it as separate storage devices), and although it's technically possible to use it that way, it's a not supported configuration.

Please let me know if you have further questions or concerns.

Regards,

Irwan_Intel

[cassiel]

Hello Irwan_Intel,

thank you for your efforts to reply to my questions.

But let me try to paraphrase your answer to make sure I get things right:

you emphasize that my use case is not "validated" nor "supported" by Intel. Further you note that because of the total failure of the device it is not possible (for you?) to detect the root cause of the failure. Assuming good intensions that you want to help me and not to put me off, does that mean that you or any other engineer in charge has no experience with use cases like mine? How about "supported" use cases with total failure like mine? never happened? no experience either?

As I stated before I'm not looking for a crystal clear, 100% sure diagnosis, nor solution, nor do I want my use case to be "validated" or "supported". Do you always use your car in "validated" and "supported" use cases, even not unintentionally otherwise? You may loose warranty claims, but when you're in trouble would you expect the manufacturer to be of no help because of that? Would look a bit like dead parrot sketch to me.

To make long things short: in case you don't have any helpful information or experience on my "unsupported" use case or similar "supported" ones that gets me ahead from where we are now, then please say so and we can regard this case closed.

best regards

Cassiel

[IntelSupport]

Hello cassiel,

Regarding your questions, we are checking with the engineering team and will provide you with more details soon.

Kindly let us know if you have any questions.

Thank you.

Regards,

Hayat

Intel Customer Support

[IntelSupport · Accepted solution]

Hi cassiel,

Regarding your issue, there could be multiple reasons for the cause of the issue.

The most typical one for SSDs is related to the media. The number of writes done were higher than the drive limit. This is called "media wear-out". Another possibility is a failure in the controller/firmware which makes the drive to enter into a disabled logical state. If the SSD is still recognized, there may be some actions that can be done to try to recover the drive like upgrading the firmware, or low-format it.

However, when it's no longer recognized in BIOS, attempts to recover the SSD are not possible. 3rd party companies that offer data recovery services may still be able to recover the data.

In regards of not "validated" nor "supported" - it means that the dual boot configuration is not supported by Intel since it is not made for dual boot.

Kindly let us know if you need more information or have further questions.

Regards,

Hayat

Intel Customer Support

[cassiel]

Hello Hayat,

thank you. These informations get me ahead with my case. Now I have at least an idea what's going on and what to expect. The SSD is already on its way to one of the data recovery companies you recommend on the webpage mentioned above. It's now wait and see what they say. But I adopt a two-pronged strategy and started to rebuild my system with a backup in the meantime, keeping up hope to minimize data loss. At the moment there are no further questions on my side. It all depends now on the results from the data recovery company.

best regards

Cassiel

[IntelSupport]

Hi cassiel,

I am glad that some of this information have managed to help you understand the issue further.

Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any other questions in future. We will be more than glad to help you.

Since you have no other questions now - we will proceed with the thread closure.

Once the thread is closed, it will no longer be monitored by Intel. Kindly open a new thread if you have further questions.

Thank you.

Regards,

Hayat

Intel Customer Support