Thermal sensor issue i7-7700k?

[CK7]

I have a brand new build; EVERYTHING NEW. i7-7700k is running at stock speeds. I have the RAM set to XMP for DDR4-2666. Motherboard is Asus Maximus IX Hero Z270.

I have found that the i7-7700k reports a momentary (a second or less) temperature spike +25 > 35 degrees Celsius anytime a program is opened, a webpage is opened, a background app runs etc. The temperature blip cascades through the cores in random order; not the same every time. This causes my heatsink fan to constantly cycle up and down. Temperatures otherwise report as steady, normal increases. Peak temperature under Prime95 blend test is 71 degrees Celsius.

Attempted solutions:

I have re-installed my heatsink and thermal paste with no change.

I have tried to manually set my fan speed in the bios. The only setting that avoids this issue is setting the temperature / fan at a constant (and loud) 80-100%. I've tried PWM and DC mode.

I have found a few user reports elsewhere on the web, all reasoning that it's just the way it is. I don't accept that. Opening a folder or browser should not spike temps +30 degrees. Not only is the fan cycling annoying, it puts undue stress on my fan; possibly shortening its lifespan.

What's the answer, if any? RMA?

[JMano2]

Okay thanks! Is that the only voltage setting you recommend to under volt them? Also is there any performance hindrances doing this, or something I should note of before? Like nubers before and after under volt

[ARoss4]

Mine is at 1.050v, some user is stable at 1.080V. Datasheet says 1.0v +-5mv

[JMano2]

Okay 1.080 started up for me. To say it's stable should I run a stress test like prime95 or is it considered stable when you start it up and works?

[ARoss4]

I setted all voltages manually: vcore at stock is 1.200, IO to 1.050, SA to 1.000, CPU PLL OC to 1.050. we are not really undervolting, we are setting the right voltages. We can not know why but Motherboards overvolt, as we can see on cpu datasheet.

[JMano2]

You are probably getting tired of answering questions, but I shouldnt have to much more, =D. But changing these volts require a stress test? Or are stress tests only required when you are overclocking and seeing where your temps are after that

Edit: Last question..... I think! lol, for the vcore being 1.20v, thats also what mine is set to stock but its on auto too. Should I manually type in 1.20? or is it fine the way it is? But as is, my temps have droped near 20c! You are the man, thank you for making my machine run more efficient!!

[VMiky]

GA-B250M-Gaming 3

Core i3-7300

Сегодня у меня был сильный трабл с ЦП.. Включая ПК, стал сильно жужжать кулер, открыв HWMONITOR датчик температуры процессора показывал 100 градусов, я быстро скинул крышку корпуса что бы потрогать радиатор, как оказалось он совершенно холодный, далее перезагрузил ПК войдя в биос, температура не отличалась по показаниям, так же 100 градусов показывал и биос, сброс настроек биоса результата не дал. Сколько бы я не перезагружался он не переставал гудеть и показывал температуру 100 градусов, в итоге я выключил ПК от сети - клацнул на БП офф, и достал батарейку на мат.плате обесточив всю систему - через минут 15 все воткнул и проблема решилась

P.S. Биос всегда в дефолтных настройках касаемо ЦП.

[ASušt]

So, do we have a new savior? The CPU PLL OC voltage.

Does anyone have some more results with changing this voltage?

jamezz23

I would recommend a test, at least for 30 mins. I will show you, is your cpu stable or not.

Stability in this case means - is there enough power for the cpu, after you have decreased the voltage.

[TGrab1]

AndrewRossi wrote:

Hello,

I wrote a post to Intel about these problems but Intel just make fun of us. They tell us to not overclock when problem is at stock settings. Just for your information, i bought tree i7700k, all has these issues.

All has spikes from 40 to 70 degrees just opening a browser. All overheat over 95 degrees under full load.

So i choose to delid one of my three CPUs to see if it will fixed spikes and overheat. This avoid your warranty, but delid fixed spikes issue, also fix overheat issue.

The problem is due to bad TIM and it is due also to space between DIE and IHS caused by the glue. Removing the glue and changing the TIM solves spikes.

Another factor is that motherboards productors overvolts CPU PLL OC at stock setting. They set it high as RAM voltage (from 1.2 to 1.35v). We do not know why. Just go on the BIOS and set CPU PLL OC to datasheet voltage vol.1 p.119, so 1.0v (+-5mv). Your temperatures will be 10 degrees less, but you will see two core lower then your room temp. No explain about this behaviour: refer to the temperature of the package or the highest core.

I have been buying from Intel for ten years, but i will never buy again. Bad CPUs, worst support.

P.S. New (really really low) temps on full load prime95 (delid + CPU PLL OC fix + watercool = no spikes, no overheat)

I just want to say that Intel is not "making fun of us." All Cpu manufacturers will advise against overclocking... it is a liability issue and they would be liable for any damaged caused from the process if they endorsed it. That being said they do offer us enthusiasts a rank of chips that are unlocked for easy overclocking. Offering chips that support it and openly endorsing overclocking though are two very different things.

That being said if you were told to not overclock your chip this could also be for troubleshooting purposes. If you contacted support and were looking for help the first thing they need to do is eliminate as many extra variables as possible which would result in returning a chip to stock to see if the problems persist.

Now I do agree that the TIM and gap created by a uneven adhesive does play a big role in temps for some chips. I have also delidded my chip to very similar gains. That being said I do not think it is something I would advise 95% of people to do. It can be a risky process and does of course void your warranty. Then again the temps most people are seeing are completely safe and within spec. The problem is we are comparing them to past chips and that is also part of our mistake. The way these chips behave is part of the architecture of how it tries to complete a task as quick as possible and spend more time in an idle state (Saves energy). This causes spikes that we are seeing, The heat while definitely suffering in some cases from TIM and Gap issues is also something normal for this chip. The Die size has continually gotten smaller all while increase the speed on these chips. The smaller the die the less contact surface you will have with the IHS and the less contact with the IHS the less heat it can move away quickly. That is why these chips are made to withstand higher temps.

Some people are having fan issues because of the temperature spikes and unfortunately this is something that will need to be address either via bios, third party software, or a fan controller. The machines having these fan ramping issues are normally custom build machines and are not using an Intel cooler in any case (not included with most K designated chips).

Lastly it is up to the motherboard manufacturers to correct these incorrect and/or overvolted settings. This isn't intel's fault, but the fault of some manufacturers who are slow to over bios revisions to address these issues.

All that being said, I am still happy when my 7700k. Could Intel have done a better job on the Tim? Yes. Could they have been more consistent in the application of the adhesive? Yes. You run in to these issues with all CPU manufacturers and unfortunately this is part of the game. However, it still does not change the fact they have produced a chip that smokes the competition for its intended purpose.

P.S. Sorry I have been absent from the discussion for so long. Changed jobs a few months ago and as of 7-10-17 at 1:24pm and 1:26 pm I became the father of a beautiful set of twin boys :-D.

[ARoss4]

As you can see from my post, issues are at stock voltage. Then no overclock. Just plugging your CPU, set a cooler, with BIOS stock settings for Kaby Lake.

As I sayd "All has spikes from 40 to 70 degrees just opening a browser. All overheat over 95 degrees under full load." All of my three i7 7700k has same issues, with stock voltages.

Issues are not due to fan speed because testing with a powerfull watercooler nothing changes. Just delidding and changing voltages fix issues. Temperatures drops 20 degrees and spikes fix.

Hardware "bugs" by Intel (TIM and IHS placement) and software "bug" by motherboards producers (default voltages overvolt) are also evident to blind people: they made production mistakes and they do not want to loose money admitting it.

Intel's responses do not make any logical sense and test even the average user's intelligence. This worsens things.

Motherboards productors set wrong voltages on Bios for Kaby Lake and they also do not admit it. TIM is worst i ve never seen, and Intel do not admit it.

I call it "make fun of us", you can call it as you like. That is my personal opinion.

[ARoss4]

jamezz23 wrote:

You are probably getting tired of answering questions, but I shouldnt have to much more, =D. But changing these volts require a stress test? Or are stress tests only required when you are overclocking and seeing where your temps are after that

Edit: Last question..... I think! lol, for the vcore being 1.20v, thats also what mine is set to stock but its on auto too. Should I manually type in 1.20? or is it fine the way it is? But as is, my temps have droped near 20c! You are the man, thank you for making my machine run more efficient!!

On this new motherboards there is some new way to set vcore:

1) Auto: your Bios will choose the vcore

2) Offset: + or - offset on auto voltage

3) Adaptive: you choose a target voltage and your bios will decreases it as needed when clock speed decreases4) Adaptive + Offset

5) Fixed: you choose a vcore and it will be fixed for any clock speed.

On Auto if you have XMP enabled for high DDR4 RAM clock speed, most of time it overvolt your vcore with any stability reason.

If you see that your vcore is 1.20v (under stress test at max clock speed), so well your voltage is stock voltage.

If not you can use offset or adaprive to reduce it.

However, you can try unvervolting even if your voltage is 1.20. Usually at stock clock, the i7 7700k is stable at 1.180v or maybe at a lower voltage depending on silicon lottery.

[JTami]

The only option i can find in my bios is "internal PPL voltage", changing the setting to "manual: 1050v" doesn't seem to do anything, hwinfo shows no change in CPU PPL voltage (1.150v).

(motherboard: asus strix itx z270i)

TGrable, if the new architecture were the cause, then we would see the problem on EVERY chip, and it's not the case. If you tell me that's the TIM fault or the gap betwen the IHS and the pcb, deliding should be the solution, and it's not. The thing is, i've seen some of these CPU without delid and with average cooling, COMPLETELY spike free. So.. that leaves us with 2 options, it's a failiure that comes with some batches (sensor, microcode, hardware, whatever), or its a quality control issue and the silicon lottery is getting hardcore on us. Any way, in my opinion, it's something that intel should fix, and not about a "new architecture" that we need to get used to it.

Thanks everyone for the info!

[ARoss4]

Xavit wrote:

The only option i can find in my bios is "internal PPL voltage", changing the setting to "manual: 1050v" doesn't seem to do anything, hwinfo shows no change in CPU PPL voltage (1.150v).

(motherboard: asus strix itx z270i)

TGrable, if the new architecture were the cause, then we would see the problem on EVERY chip, and it's not the case. If you tell me that's the TIM fault or the gap betwen the IHS and the pcb, deliding should be the solution, and it's not. The thing is, i've seen some of these CPU without delid and with average cooling, COMPLETELY spike free. So.. that leaves us with 2 options, it's a failiure that comes with some batches (sensor, microcode, hardware, whatever), or its a quality control issue and the silicon lottery is getting hardcore on us. Any way, in my opinion, it's something that intel should fix, and not about a "new architecture" that we need to get used to it.

Thanks everyone for the info!

If you see that your voltage CPU PLL it is not changed, so you have changed the wrong parameter, or you ve a bad motherboard. As you sayd hwinfo shows no change in CPU PLL OC voltage (1.150v).

Issues are two:

1) TIM fault and the gap betwen the IHS and the PCB

2) Motherboards bad voltages.

Solving the first issue (delidding) solves overheat (for all users), settings right voltages on Bios solves spikes (for all users). As i sayd it was a solution for all my three i7 7700k.

Sure, some CPU has a less gap between IHS and the PCB so do not overheat, and some motherboards set right voltages. When this combination happens all seems ok. But that it is not important: most of CPUs overheat and most of motherboards set bad voltages (as you see your motherboard sets 1.150v instead of setting 1.050v, so your motherboard is overvolting CPU PLL OC. It must be 1.0v +-5mv as datasheet says).

As you can see above users who has changed CPU PLL OC to right voltage has solved spikes and has 20° less.

Delidding + right voltages solves issues on all my 7700k (30° less, no more spikes), so now we can be sure that is the way.

As Jamezz23 says above: "my temps have droped near 20c!" just changing CPU PLL Oc. I have also delidded so my temps are more then 30 degrees low, with no spikes. Now on full load my temps are near 50 degree with no spikes.

[JMano2]

It is set to 1.20v and is on auto, the picture is just just the stock setting of Auto. As you see the high is 1.350v

Is that the number that the vcore adjusts? and does it seem too high for a non overclocked 7700k?

[ARoss4]

Your motherboard is overvolting vcore. As i say motherboards overvolts by default with any reasons.

Set vcore on 1.20v, adaptive mode. Stock voltage for i7 7700k must be 1.20v, nothing more for 4.2ghz-4.5ghz(turbo boost).

1.350v it is really high voltage for a stock clock. You can run at 5ghz with that voltage.

[JMano2]

I found adaptive mode, and set the core voltage to 1.20v, still shows 1.3xx so it is still sending too many volts somehow, and now IA and LLC/Ring are getting readings as there weren't before

Here are my overall voltage settings

[ARoss4]

I do not know why you motherboard continue to overvolt. Try to set multiplier to 45x manually instead of auto, also try a lower vcore like 1.190v or less. See what happens.

[JMano2]

Okay, but first what exactly do you mean by multiplier?

[ARoss4]

cpu clock ratio

[JMano2]

Okay ill check that out, on the prime95 stress test, it seems like the max its allowing to go is 1.290 now.

The reading I need to worry about is the top or bottom one? I was originally looking at the bottom, both are close tho

[ARoss4]

Have you setted cpu clock ratio manually to 45x?

However, you can set a lower vcore, you must see 1.210/1.230 max on HWMonitor. It also will low the temperatures.

[JMano2]

Yes I have. The voltage reading on the 7700k chip is still a max of 1.330v and the cpu vcore on the motherboard is 1.288v. Those numbers are from a 10 min prime95 test so far