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Looking for FPGA that can have FF and shift register that can clock at 1GHz

Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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Hi 

I designed with Apex 10 years ago. I am designing circuit that use FF, latches, 14 bit adders, and some simple combination logic that can run on a synchronous 1GHz clock. I don't need any fancy processor, DSP etc, just simple circuit even the old MAX Plus can do, but just need to run at 1GHz clocking. 

 

Can you suggest the fastest and latest family FPGA I can look into? 

 

I programmed with the Quartus 10 years ago, what is the latest version for programming? Is it similar with the original Quartus I learned before?  

Is there any free simulation program? 

 

Thanks 

 

Alan
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
1,744 Views

 

--- Quote Start ---  

Hi Alan, 

 

You have misunderstood. I was warning you that an FPGA expects a digital signal. Re-read my post. The digital signal requirements for LVDS and SERDES are that the signal amplitude be 350mVpp to 400mVpp. If your signals do not have many toggles, then they would also need to be DC coupled to the digital inputs, with an appropriate bias voltage applied. 

 

Your signal *does not* meet these requirements, so you need to decide how you are going to interface your signal to the FPGA. 

 

The board I provided a link to has a dual 1GHz ADC interfaced to an FPGA. The ADC is *not* part of the FPGA. 

 

If you only care about the time at which your pulses occur, and not their amplitude, then you might be able to use a limiting amplifier with high gain, and then interface that to the FPGA inputs. 

 

Cheers, 

Dave 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Thanks 

 

I already planned on having analog amplifier driving comparator to get the correct digital interface signal to drive the FPGA. If SERDES doesn't have the logic I want, then I am going to spend some time concentrate reading the Stratix V manual, datasheet for a while. From what I read your posts, sounds like Stratix V should work for me. 

 

Does Altera have free simulation program? 

 

Alan
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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Thanks 

 

I already planned on having analog amplifier driving comparator to get the correct digital interface signal to drive the FPGA. If SERDES doesn't have the logic I want, then I am going to spend some time concentrate reading the Stratix V manual, datasheet for a while. From what I read your posts, sounds like Stratix V should work for me. 

 

Does Altera have free simulation program? 

 

Alan
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
1,744 Views

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

I already planned on having analog amplifier driving comparator to get the correct digital interface signal to drive the FPGA. 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Ok, that sounds good. Keep in mind that the comparator output should be differential, and if the signal needs to be DC coupled to the SERDES, you'll need to match the common-mode voltage of either the LVDS receiver or the SERDES receiver (see the data sheet for details). 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

If SERDES doesn't have the logic I want, then I am going to spend some time concentrate reading the Stratix V manual, datasheet for a while. From what I read your posts, sounds like Stratix V should work for me. 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

There are Cyclone and Arria devices with transceivers too. However, whatever you learn from reading the Stratix V manual will apply to them too, so start with the Stratix V manual. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

Does Altera have free simulation program? 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Yes. Altera supplies a version of Mentor Graphics Modelsim called Modelsim-ASE (Altera Starter Edition). Its good enough for what you want to look at. The main limitation is that it only handles one HDL language (easy enough to deal with) and its crippled, i.e., transceiver simulations take longer than they do in Modelsim-SE. In your case, free probably outweighs the cost of paying for Modelsim-SE :) 

 

Cheers, 

Dave
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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thanks 

 

Is Quartus II similar to Quaretus I learned 10 years ago? They still using AHDL programming?
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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--- Quote Start ---  

 

Is Quartus II similar to Quartus I learned 10 years ago?  

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

I'm sure the interface has changed. Just go through a getting started tutorial and you'll get the hang of it. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

They still using AHDL programming? 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Its supported, but I would not recommend using it. Quartus supports both VHDL, Verilog, and SystemVerilog. Much of the latest IP is written using SystemVerilog. If you have to learn a language, I'd probably recommend looking at SystemVerilog ... but personally I use VHDL and SystemVerilog when needed, eg., when writing a tutorial that needs to use a single language simulator. 

 

Here's a couple of documents that you can look at; 

https://www.ovro.caltech.edu/~dwh/correlator/cobra_docs.html 

 

Look at the transceiver toolkit documents and the Altera JTAG-to-Avalon-MM tutorial. 

 

Cheers, 

Dave
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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Thanks Dave 

I am reading the Stratix V manual, still on chapter 1!!! 

 

Any suggestion on good link to learn VHDL? 

 

Thanks
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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--- Quote Start ---  

 

I am reading the Stratix V manual, still on chapter 1!!! 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

You should browse through it, but don't really bother "reading" it in-depth. Also browse through the Quartus II manual. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

Any suggestion on good link to learn VHDL? 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

No, not a link. Go and buy a development board. The board does not even have to be suitable for your current project, eg., Arrow have a $30 board called the BeMicro-MAX10. Buy it. When it is sitting in your hand you'll have this overwhelming desire to make it work ... only then should you bother trying to read a handbook or learn an HDL language. 

 

Look at the link I sent you above. There's plenty of HDL code associated with it - both VHDL and SystemVerilog. Use Google to learn the basics of the language. If you decide to get a book on VHDL, get Ashenden's book (The Designer's Guide to VHDL, 3rd Ed) ... but its probably not the best book to learn with ... 

 

You can also use Quartus II to learn an HDL. The help menu has links to tutorials. The Altera University Program web site has lots of tutorials. The Quartus II editor has templates for VHDL, Verilog, etc. 

 

Cheers, 

Dave
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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OK thanks 

 

I was really reading the manual!!! Like how many inputs, register, internal clks and all!!! I never read in detail when I did the other designs because I was not pushing the speed, I thought I need to read in detail so I know how to control the path to achieve the 1GHz clocking. 

 

OK I just go through it faster. 

 

Thanks
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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--- Quote Start ---  

 

I was really reading the manual!!! Like how many inputs, register, internal clks and all!!! 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Its good to get an idea of the resources, but in your case, your design is small relative to pretty much any FPGA. Your primary objective is to get your head around what FPGAs can do, and then see how you can apply it to your design. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

I never read in detail when I did the other designs because I was not pushing the speed, I thought I need to read in detail so I know how to control the path to achieve the 1GHz clocking. 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

There is no problem creating an LVDS or SERDES interface at 1GHz. The bigger question for you, is "Is that suitable for your application?" 

 

You can read the digitizer document here; 

 

https://www.ovro.caltech.edu/~dwh/carma_board/digitizer_tests.pdf 

 

It has details on tests of the LVDS at 1GHz, eg., see p64. The LVDS interface is the *digital* link between the ADC and the FPGA. It can be operated as 8-bits at 1GHz or 16-bits at 500MHz. The hardware design supports both schemes. 

 

Cheers, 

Dave
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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Am I reading wrong or one of these FPGA is over $2000? 

 

If so, that's too high for my design. Is there any older FPGA that can still work for my requirements? 

 

Thanks
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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--- Quote Start ---  

Am I reading wrong or one of these FPGA is over $2000? 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Yep, that is the list price. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

If so, that's too high for my design. Is there any older FPGA that can still work for my requirements? 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Yes, there are cheaper devices. As was commented, you can probably use a Cyclone or Arria device. 

 

Before you select a part, you need to determine *what* that part needs to do. You're in the situation of not quite knowing what you want to do, so its really not a problem that you simply start by looking at a data sheet. You're better off reading the data sheet for the device with all the features, and then use Quartus or Modelsim to figure out what you can actually use on that part to achieve your goal, and then try that same logic in a lower-cost device. 

 

For example, lets say you can use LVDS at 1GHz. The Stratix series definitely handles that data rate, but do the Arria and Cyclone series devices? Look at the data sheets for the Arria V and Cyclone V devices and see. Then do the same for the maximum SERDES data rates. Each of these 'rates' will also depend on the speed grade of the part, eg., the lowest speed grades are the lowest cost, and will have the slowest speed. However 'slowest' for a transceiver may be 2.5Gbps ... which could be fast enough for your application ... once you have figured out what the logic needs to do. 

 

So, don't be scared off just yet, consider yourself 'educated' :) 

 

Cheers, 

Dave
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Altera_Forum
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I am coming up with a new design that need only a few registers that clocked at 1GHz. The only registers that clocked at 1GHz are  

1) Divided by 5 counter to get down to a 200MHz clock called CLK+0nS. 

2) 4 DFF shift register clocking at 1GHz to shift the 200MHz clock to get CLK+1nS, CLK+2nS, CLK+3nS, CLK+4nS. Each output of the shift register is 200MHz, but each delayed by 1nS. 

 

I use these 5 clocks to capture the input event at 1nS resolution. The rest of the pipeline registers are running at 200MHz only. If it needs to be, I can further demux it down to 100MHz easily. 

 

With this new design, how cheap the FPGA I can use? I only need about 10 of the DFF to run at full 1GHz, the rest are 200MHz only. Please help. 

 

So Far, I read the First 2 chapters of the Stratix V manual, does this help in understanding the older, slower FPGAs? Or should I find the right one for the new design and start over again? 

 

Thanks
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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As an example of a lower cost device: 

 

Lets find a Cyclone V with transceivers ... 

https://www.altera.com/products/fpga/cyclone-series/cyclone-v/features.html 

Cyclone V GX FPGAs with 3.125 Gbps transceivers 

 

Click on the "BUY" link and look at the Cyclone V GX devices. 

The cheapest "in stock" device is the 5CGXFC3B7F23C8N for $81 

http://www.buyaltera.com/scripts/partsearch.dll?detail&name=544-2757-nd 

 

What can this part do? Use page 7 of the Overview to decode the part number: 

 

5C Cyclone V 

GX 3Gbps transceivers 

F 2 PCIe and 2 memory controllers (max) 

C3 31.5K LEs 

B 3 transceivers 

7 2.5Gbps transceiver speed 

F23 Package type 

C Commercial 

8 Slowest speed grade 

N RoHS 

 

So this part has three 2.5Gbps transceivers. If you were using transceivers for your interface, it *would not* meet your requirement, since it does not have 16 channels, but if you look at the part number table, the maximum number of transceivers is 12, a single piece of this particular part would not meet your needs anyway. 

 

How about LVDS then? Search in the Overview document for LVDS and you'll see ... 

 

"875 megabits per second (Mbps) LVDS receiver and 840 Mbps LVDS transmitter" 

 

so this part does not support 1Gbps LVDS. 

 

Keep in mind that you could also use an external SERDES ... 

 

http://www.ti.com/ww/en/analog/interface/serdes.shtml 

 

where the external chip samples at 1Gbps performs serial-to-parallel conversion, and then you interface the parallel bits into the FPGA for pattern detection. 

 

This complicates the PCB design, since you've now got to route the parallel bits, but it could make the solution cheaper. 

 

Cheers, 

Dave
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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--- Quote Start ---  

I am coming up with a new design that need only a few registers that clocked at 1GHz. The only registers that clocked at 1GHz are  

1) Divided by 5 counter to get down to a 200MHz clock called CLK+0nS. 

2) 4 DFF shift register clocking at 1GHz to shift the 200MHz clock to get CLK+1nS, CLK+2nS, CLK+3nS, CLK+4nS. Each output of the shift register is 200MHz, but each delayed by 1nS. 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

What you are describing here is essentially a PLL and an LVDS SERDES channel. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

With this new design, how cheap the FPGA I can use? I only need about 10 of the DFF to run at full 1GHz, the rest are 200MHz only. Please help. 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

You'll need one with LVDS at 1Gbps, or if you can split your comparator/limiting amplifier output into two signals, then you could sample it using two LVDS inputs at 500Mbps, and use the PLL to phase-shift the sampling clocks by 1ns. Basically you'll create two 1-bit ADCs that have their clocks skewed by 1ns. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

So Far, I read the First 2 chapters of the Stratix V manual, does this help in understanding the older, slower FPGAs? Or should I find the right one for the new design and start over again? 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

You should determine whether your design can be implemented as a 1-bit sampling system. It would be a shame for you to spend time learning about LVDS deserializers and then realize you need amplitude information from your RF signal. If you do need RF amplitude information, you need to determine the resolution you need. 

 

Cheers, 

Dave
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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I had a quick look at the Arria V, Cyclone V, and MAX 10 data sheets. These devices do not support 1Gbps, but they all appear to support 500Mbps, so you could conceivably use interlaced sampling to achieve 1Gbps sampling. If you look at the link to the Texas Instruments/National Semiconductor SERDES parts, you'll see there are plenty of devices that can operate at 1Gbps, that then deserialize to slower parallel data streams, eg., 1-bit at 1000Mbps to 16-bits at 62.5MHz (LVCMOS logic levels), which is pretty easy to interface to. 

 

Cheers, 

Dave
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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Thanks Dave for guiding me through this difficult times as this is really not my specialties. I have to re-read your 3 posts more. 

 

But I can tell you I don't need analog amplitude information. I just do all amplification and drive through the comparator outside. I just find a comparator that has output format to match the FPGA. 

 

I'll take a look at Ti SERDES and see what works. It would be nice to slow down the data rate so the FPGA is out of the bottle neck. I designed enough with MAX and APEX before, but never really pushing the speed of the device, so I just wrote the AHDL like programming, never worry about the clock path and all. If I can slow down to the point that I don't have to pay special attention to the how the signal path goes, that will be that much better for me. I have no intention to become a FPGA engineer!!! Hell, I retired 10 years already, the former company called me up to do an R&D project two months ago, I just sent out the pcb, and now they just want me to work on this.
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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--- Quote Start ---  

Thanks Dave for guiding me through this difficult times as this is really not my specialties. I have to re-read your 3 posts more. 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

I like to help :) 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

But I can tell you I don't need analog amplitude information. I just do all amplification and drive through the comparator outside. I just find a comparator that has output format to match the FPGA. 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Good, then all you are after is a 1-bit ADC. Now you have to decide whether 1GHz sample rate is sufficient. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

I'll take a look at Ti SERDES and see what works. It would be nice to slow down the data rate so the FPGA is out of the bottle neck. 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Technically the FPGA is not the bottleneck, since some FPGAs can handle it, but you want to keep the price low, and you don't really need that much FPGA logic. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

I designed enough with MAX and APEX before, but never really pushing the speed of the device, so I just wrote the AHDL like programming, never worry about the clock path and all. If I can slow down to the point that I don't have to pay special attention to the how the signal path goes, that will be that much better for me. 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

If you use an external SERDES then you could use a MAX 10 device. They're really just an FPGA with on-chip configuration memory. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

I have no intention to become a FPGA engineer!!! 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Yes, but you are an engineer, and you like solving problems :) 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

Hell, I retired 10 years already, the former company called me up to do an R&D project two months ago, I just sent out the pcb, and now they just want me to work on this. 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Good for you :) 

 

I see two reasonable options; 

 

1. Mid-range FPGA sampling at 1GHz using two LVDS inputs and a PLL with interlaced sampling at 500Mbps. 

 

This requires that your comparator output be routed to two FPGA inputs. If your comparator output is LVDS, then you need to find a 1:2 fanout buffer that operates at 1GHz. If an LVDS 1:2 buffer does not exist, then look for an LVPECL or CML comparator and 1:2 fanout. 

 

2. External 1Gbps SERDES with parallel output plus a MAX 10 

 

Cheers, 

Dave
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Altera_Forum
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Thanks for your detail reply 

 

I did look at the SERDES a little, I don't think that will work. Sounds like SERDES expect a data with constant rate and use PLL to lock onto the input stream. My data is totally random. The average rate is only about 20MHz. BUT because of the randomness, two pulse can be as close as 1nS between adjacent channel. That's the reason I need to have this high speed sampling. Also I cannot do coincident detection with the SERDES.  

 

I have been designing the circuit, looks like the description in post# 33 above still hold. Attrached is the schematic of the front end, I need about: 

1) About 7 DFF that HAVE to run at 1GHz clocking.  

2)70 DFF run at 200MHz,  

3) The rest of the DFF are 100MHz or slower. 

4) All adders and logics with propagation delay of 10nS if possible. Or else, more demuxing. 

 

What is the cheapest FPGA family I can use to fulfill this requirement?  

 

Again, thanks for your patience. 

 

Alan
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Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor II
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--- Quote Start ---  

 

I did look at the SERDES a little, I don't think that will work. Sounds like SERDES expect a data with constant rate and use PLL to lock onto the input stream. My data is totally random. The average rate is only about 20MHz. BUT because of the randomness, two pulse can be as close as 1nS between adjacent channel. That's the reason I need to have this high speed sampling. Also I cannot do coincident detection with the SERDES. 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Right, you're looking for a very specific SERDES - one that is really just a high-speed shift-register with an *external* reference clock, not a clock and data recovery circuit (or a CDR that can be forced to stay in lock-to-data mode). When I had a quick glance at the TI site, it looked like some of the display-link, channel-link, and FPGA-link devices *might* have had those characteristics, but I didn't have time to look into it in detail :) 

 

Take a look at this page 

 

https://www.ovro.caltech.edu/~dwh/correlator 

 

click on the COBRA Digitizer photo. The big black chips are ECL serial-to-parallel shift-registers doing exactly what you want. 

 

https://www.ovro.caltech.edu/~dwh/correlator/pdf/digmodule_sch_rev_c1.pdf 

https://www.ovro.caltech.edu/~dwh/correlator/pdf/digmodule_spec_rev_c1.pdf 

 

The part number is 100E445. Both Micrel and OnSemi make them. The can operate at up to 2Gbps. The COBRA board cascades two of them, so that you create a 1:8 shift register. 

 

This is the type of part you want. I don't think you want to use this exact part. See if you can find an LVPECL equivalent (100EP445), or CML, or LVDS. The point of showing you these parts is to show that what you want to do is possible using external parts. 

 

The COBRA board contains a 1GHz ADC, the ECL logic slows the data down to 125MHz, and then the FPGAs process the data. These are FLEX10K devices ... from 2000. A lifetime ago :) 

 

If you use an external shift-register and get the logic interface levels correct, you can use a low-cost FPGA. But you'll want to make sure your shift-registers are also low cost too :) 

 

NOTE: Mouser has the 100EP445 (4-bit) and 100EP142 (9-bit) shift-registers for about $20 each. If you need 16 channels then you need $320 worth of parts. An FPGA with 500Mbps LVDS interlaced to sample at 1GHz is not a bad option ... 

 

What would be nice is a part like this, but with 1Gbps lanes (rather than eight 112MHz x 6 = 672Mbps lanes) 

http://www.ti.com/product/ds90cr482/description 

 

From the Lattice web site: "Toggling at 1Gbps, the LatticeECP3 FPGAs also feature the fastest LVDS I/O available in a mid-range FPGA family" (but I could not find that data rate in the datasheet, I only found 400MHz, i.e., 800Mbps). 

 

Cheers, 

Dave
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Altera_Forum
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Thanks Dave for all your time. I read through your posts again. I looked into the SERDES. I don't see Ti has deserializer with serial input clock. I found Maxim MAX3885 have serial input clock. The 100EP445 actually getting closer, it's simpler without the bit skipping, you just reset the chip to start over. But even if that works out, it's 16 channels of this. I still have to worry about doing reset to synchronize the bit streams of all channel. There's always a chance of getting out of sync and data become garbage. 

 

I forgot to mention, My block diagram schematic is only one of the ten modules in the system. So there will be 160 channels total!!! that's a lot of deserializers!!! The way I design in post# 39 is such that I pack all 16 of the serial bits from the 16 channels into the same register, so each 16bit parallel output of the register is the same bit from each channel. So the bits from all 16 channels are aligned by design. 

 

In my design, I have one counter and five DFF that run at 1GHz. I can use 10EP016 binary counter and 10EP451 Hex DFF. Two ECL to generate a 5phase clock to chop the 200MHz clock into 5 clocks that are 1nS delay from each other. I then can feed the 5 clocks into a FPGA to do all the deserializing. This way, I only have two ECL circuit driving the timing for 16 channels and all 16 channels are processed by one FPGA. sounds like a winner so far. I am going to think about if I can drive all 10 of this circuit(160 channels) with just this two ECL. But that can be challenge as traces are delay lines. 

 

So my question to you if you look at the schematic in post# 39: 

1) with the external ECL circuit, I am running 5 of the 200MHz clock into the FPGA. Can the Cyclone V works for me? $81 is acceptable. 

2) Is there cheaper FPGA that can work with 5 200MHz clock? 

3) I only draw the front end deserializer that spit out 200MHz data, I likely still want to demux out further to slow to at least 50MHz or even 25MHz to lower the power dissipation of the FPGA(CMOS power decrease at switching frequency goes down). Then I have to have a few 14Bit adders, then the read logic from uP. What size FPGA do I need? 

 

Again, thanks for all your time in helping me. 

 

Alan
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Altera_Forum
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--- Quote Start ---  

Thanks Dave for all your time. 

--- Quote End ---  

 

You have an interesting problem, so you piqued my interest :) 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

I found Maxim MAX3885 have serial input clock. 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

This part looks suitable. What didn't you like about it (if anything)? Digikey lists it for $30 each. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

The 100EP445 actually getting closer, it's simpler without the bit skipping, you just reset the chip to start over. But even if that works out, it's 16 channels of this. I still have to worry about doing reset to synchronize the bit streams of all channel. There's always a chance of getting out of sync and data become garbage. 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

You only need to reset at power-on, after that point your system would clock the parts at 1GHz and capture the data at 250MHz. The system would be synchronous, and you'd use the FPGA PLL to ensure that you captured the ECL output data in the middle of the 250MHz sampling window. You can easily check this is working by adjusting the phase of the 250MHz clock while sampling a known signal, eg., a sinusoid. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

I forgot to mention, My block diagram schematic is only one of the ten modules in the system. So there will be 160 channels total!!! that's a lot of deserializers!!! 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Nah, its not that many. Check out the photos of the FPGA boards in here ... 

 

https://www.ovro.caltech.edu/~dwh/wbsddc/altera_fpgas_in_radio_astronomy.pdf 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

The way I design in post# 39 is such that I pack all 16 of the serial bits from the 16 channels into the same register, so each 16bit parallel output of the register is the same bit from each channel. So the bits from all 16 channels are aligned by design. 

 

--- Quote End ---  

 

That is fine. What you have shown is pretty trivial by FPGA standards. In the system in the PDF I just linked to, all 120 boards are operating synchronously to a common clock processing multi-Gigahertz of bandwidth. Your proposed system can use pretty much the same ideas. What we have to determine is whether using a Stratix series device with 1Gbps LVDS channels is cost-effective relative to an external SERDES plus a lower-cost FPGA. I suspect the FPGA-only solution will be competitive, since you will have a much simpler PCB design. But there is no need to guess, just analyze and price the various options. The Stratix II devices have LVDS that operate at 1Gbps too, so perhaps an older device would be appropriate. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

 

In my design, I have one counter and five DFF that run at 1GHz. I can use 10EP016 binary counter and 10EP451 Hex DFF. Two ECL to generate a 5phase clock to chop the 200MHz clock into 5 clocks that are 1nS delay from each other. I then can feed the 5 clocks into a FPGA to do all the deserializing. This way, I only have two ECL circuit driving the timing for 16 channels and all 16 channels are processed by one FPGA. sounds like a winner so far. I am going to think about if I can drive all 10 of this circuit(160 channels) with just this two ECL. But that can be challenge as traces are delay lines. 

 

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Now add up the BOM for these parts, and estimate the cost of the PCB ... Its "only" 1Gbps, so FR4 is fine, but you'll draw a lot of current on the ECL termination rail, or dissipate a bunch of power in the termination resistors. Do the math on what that type of design "costs" and compare it to the FPGA-only solution. 

 

 

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So my question to you if you look at the schematic in post# 39: 

1) with the external ECL circuit, I am running 5 of the 200MHz clock into the FPGA. Can the Cyclone V works for me? $81 is acceptable. 

2) Is there cheaper FPGA that can work with 5 200MHz clock? 

3) I only draw the front end deserializer that spit out 200MHz data, I likely still want to demux out further to slow to at least 50MHz or even 25MHz to lower the power dissipation of the FPGA(CMOS power decrease at switching frequency goes down). Then I have to have a few 14Bit adders, then the read logic from uP. What size FPGA do I need? 

 

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Before you decide that the FPGA is the overriding cost driver, you need to create a BOM with the ECL parts too. They're pretty expensive parts, and they run really hot. You'll need cooling. Is that acceptable? 

 

In the CARMA boards 

https://www.ovro.caltech.edu/~dwh/carma_board/ 

 

Look at the diagram on p64 of this doc 

https://www.ovro.caltech.edu/~dwh/carma_board/engineering_specification.pdf 

 

The Stratix II FPGAs have 32-bits of LVDS on the left side of the chip going to the front-panel, and 16-bits from the 1GHz digitizer. The part has at least 32-bits on each side of the device. If your RF comparator circuit does not take up much space, then you can potentially get 64 channels per FPGA. 

 

Each of the external deserializer devices we have found are either $20 or $30 each so 64 of the external devices would cost $1280 to $1920. Which is in the price range of several of the Stratix series devices. 

 

I'd recommend pricing out the two options, presenting both options to the people you are working for, and then let them think about which solution they would like you to pursue.  

 

If they give you the go-ahead, then you can build a prototype ...  

 

Cheers 

Dave
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