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Hollowsword
Beginner
5,415 Views

I have been experimenting with RST software. Can someone explain the difference between setting up a RAID 1 array and setting up a Recovery drive set to "continuous" update, as it would seem they are doing the same thing.

I understand that in a scenario of a laptop with 2nd "recovery" hard disk in a docking station, only the primary disk data changes will be synced to the recovery disk and not perform a complete drive remirror..

 

I ask because I set up a 2 disk recovery array in a desktop computer with Z77 chipset, and set to "On Request" updating, that works as it should as soon as the array has mirrored , ie: if I initiate an update it does so very quickly as it copies only the changes from the last sync to the recovery drive; but once the computer is shut down and restarted, if I then perform an "On Request" update, it starts from 0% and does a full sync.

 

I like the idea of the recovery drive disconnecting after a sync, as it will prevent any virus or crypto from attacking the other half of the mirror, as it would do in a regular RAID 1 array.

 

There does not appear to be much indepth documentation on this useful "on demand recovery" feature.

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34 Replies
Alberto_R_Intel
Moderator
406 Views

ABarr17, Thank you for posting in the Intel® Communities Support. In reference to your inquiry, as you mentioned, they are basically the same, the recovery drive set to "continuous" update, is an extra feature added to the Intel® RST, but the functionality is the same. Regards, Alberto R. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation
Hollowsword
Beginner
406 Views

Hi Alberto

 

Thanks for the response.

 

I have a couple of questions you may be able to help with.

 

-Do you have any idea why On Demand Update works as it should after initially syncing (updating only the changes since last sync), but after a reboot or shutdown and restart, when I initiate an On Demand Update it starts at 0% and does a full mirror from the beginning instead of just syncing the changes to the Recovery disk.

 

-Can you tell me the difference between "Delete RAID Volume" and "Reset Disks to Non-RAID" in the IRST Option ROM menu.

(I understand that for anything except RAID1 both options will result in user data loss, and it also seems both options will result in a RAID1 ending up as 2 single non RAID disks and with users data intact).

 

-Is there any way to have a 2 disk Recovery Volume and also another separate RAID 1 configured on the same system.

(I tried but it seems it is not possible to have another RAID set once a Recovery Volume is created).

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

Alberto_R_Intel
Moderator
406 Views

Hi ABarr17, You are very welcome. Sure, I will confirm those details for you and as soon as I get any updates I will post all the details on this thread. Regards, Alberto R. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation
Alberto_R_Intel
Moderator
406 Views

ABarr17, I just received some updates on this matter, you will find the answers to your questions below: 1. When a recovery volume is using this policy, data on the master drive is copied to the recovery drive when you request it. Only changes since the last update process are copied. 2. Delete volume, erases all data and structure and Reset disk to Non Raid, removes the structure off the volume and leaves the drive as bootable if RAID 1. 3. It is not possible due to RAID controller limitations. Regards, Alberto R. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation
Hollowsword
Beginner
406 Views

Hi Alberto

 

Thanks for the reply and information.

 

Can you please read my question again as I think you have missed what I was asking you.

 

1- I am aware that a recovery drive set to "On Demand" should update only the changes from the master disk to the recovery drive,, and it does do so after the initial sync to the recovery drive. BUT after the computer is rebooted or shutdown, when an on demand update is then initiated it performs a FULL SYNC and not just the changes since the last sync. After restarting It behaves more as if it is a broken RAID 1 volume and not a Recovery Drive.

 

For clarity: I configure a Recovery Drive in RST and set to "On Demand Update". Once both drives are synced all shows as it should, with the Recovery Disk showing offline after the sync has completed. If I then perform an on demand update the Recovery Disk comes online, changes are synced and then the Recovery Disk goes back offline. This process takes about 30 seconds. BUT, when the computer is shut down and then restarted, then the next time an on demand update is made, it performs a FULL SYNC that takes about 90 minutes. I have tried with different versions of RST and different hard disks, but it is still the same. After the initial sync completes, it works as it should only updating changes since the last sync, but when the computer is shut down at the end of the day, the next day when an On Demand Update is made, a full sync to the Recovery Drive is performed.

 

 

2 -Can you tell me the difference between "Delete RAID Volume" and "Reset Disks to Non-RAID" in the IRST Option ROM menu. Have you a more technical explanation of what the differences are between these these two options. I performed "Delete RAID Volume" on a mirror pair, and this process kept all data intact on both disks and just removed the RAID metadata. Either disk could then be booted as a single drive and all user data on both disks was left intact. "Delete RAID Volume" actually does also reset the disks to non raid, so I am curious at what the differences are between these two options on both RAID1 and RAID5 configurations.

 

Many thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alberto_R_Intel
Moderator
406 Views

Hi ABarr17, You are very welcome. Sure, let me do further research on this subject to clarify the information, as soon as I get any details I will post all the information on this thread. Regards, Alberto R. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation
Alberto_R_Intel
Moderator
406 Views

ABarr17, I just received an update on this subject. 1. In reference to your first question, actually, there is no issue with that scenario, it is an expected behavior for the "On Demand Update" to do a full sync after the PC is rebooted, that is the way it works. 2. For the second question, theoretically, Delete the Volume, erases data and structure. This means data is no longer accessible. It might be that the computer manufacturer has made changes on the RAID BIOS. You cannot recover data once a volume is deleted. This is documented on the Intel® Rapid Storage help. Regards, Alberto R. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation
Hollowsword
Beginner
406 Views

Hi Alberto

 

Thanks for the response.

 

1 - How can it be expected to do a full sync after the PC is rebooted, after all in the RST information, it states:

 

"Fast volume updates (only changes to the master drive since the last update are copied to the recovery drive)."

 

Why would it perform only a delta update before the PC is rebooted, but after a reboot perform a full sync of the master disk?

 

Can you recheck the information you have provided, and if you have any source references provide a link to it here please.

 

 

2- How can a computer manufacturers BIOS modify how the Intel RST ROM functions?

 

I created a Recovery Volume, and then when I chose "Delete RAID Volume" it removed only the Intel RAID metadata leaving both disks bootable and both disks had all Windows and User data intact.

 

I can say with 100% certainty that for RAID 1 and Recovery Volume configurations "Delete RAID Volume" does not delete any Windows and User data, and only deletes the RAID configuration data.

 

There must be a fundamental difference between the two options: "Delete RAID Volume" and "Reset Disks to Non-RAID", but I cannot find it documented anywhere.

 

Can you recheck the information you have provided, and if you have any source references can you post a link to it here please.

 

 

Many Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alberto_R_Intel
Moderator
406 Views

ABarr17, You are very welcome. We will review this case in order to confirm the details provided previously, as soon as I get any further details, I will post them on this thread. Regards, Alberto R. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation
Alberto_R_Intel
Moderator
406 Views

ABarr17, I just received an update on this matter, in regard to your questions: 1. This could be modified by the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer), for this scenario we recommend to contact the manufacturer of the the board to confirm that information. 2. The way they modified the RAID BIOS should be through the computer BIOS itself. We do not have control of their customization, for this scenario we also suggest to contact the manufacturer of the computer/board to verify those details. Regards, Alberto R. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation
Hollowsword
Beginner
406 Views

Hi Alberto

 

Many thanks for the information.

 

The Intel RAID ROM is unmodified.

 

You did not address the main questions that I asked. Why Rapid Recover does a full sync after the PC is rebooted, and what the difference is between "Delete RAID Volume" and "Reset Disks to Non-RAID".

 

I note your original answer was that a full sync is to be expected, but according to the manual, it should only sync the changes since the last update, and this is why it is called "Rapid Recover" as it does not perform a complete re mirror, which takes a long time and is not rapid.

 

I note your original answer to the second question was that the data would be lost if "Delete RAID Volume" was carried out, but I tried this function and after doing it all data on both hard disks was left intact with only the RAID metadata deleted. Each disk was now seen as a single disk and could be booted into Windows, and all user data was intact.

 

My Questions again:

 

1-Do you have any idea why On Demand Update works as it should after initially syncing (updating only the changes since last sync), but after a reboot or shutdown and restart, when I initiate an On Demand Update it starts at 0% and does a full mirror from the beginning instead of just syncing the changes to the Recovery disk.

 

2-Can you tell me the difference between "Delete RAID Volume" and "Reset Disks to Non-RAID" in the IRST Option ROM menu.

 

 

Many Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

Alberto_R_Intel
Moderator
406 Views

Hi ABarr17, You are very welcome. We will continue with our research on this subject, I will post all the results in this thread as soon as I get any information. Regards, Alberto R. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation
Hollowsword
Beginner
406 Views

Hi Alberto

 

Is there no one at Intel support who can answer my questions?

 

1-Do you have any idea why On Demand Update works as it should after initially syncing (updating only the changes since last sync), but after a reboot or shutdown and restart, when I initiate an On Demand Update it starts at 0% and does a full mirror from the beginning instead of just syncing the changes to the Recovery disk.

 

2-Can you tell me the difference between "Delete RAID Volume" and "Reset Disks to Non-RAID" in the IRST Option ROM menu.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Alberto_R_Intel
Moderator
406 Views

Hi ABarr17, I just received some updates on this matter: 1-Do you have any idea why On Demand Update works as it should after initially syncing (updating only the changes since last sync), but after a reboot or shutdown and restart, when I initiate an On Demand Update it starts at 0% and does a full mirror from the beginning instead of just syncing the changes to the Recovery disk. In order to provide further details about your question, could you please let us know how much data is in the RAID1 configuration? Does RAID1 configuration contains OS drive/partition? What tool or method are you using to claim that RST does a Full back up instead of only the delta to the Recovery disk? Based in our research, for this scenario what might be happening is that when you initiate On Demand Update, the percentage that you see is just a completion percentage of the current run and not of the full mirror. What happen if you select On Demand Update 2 times in a row? Do they both start at 0% and completes at 100%? 2-Can you tell me the difference between "Delete RAID Volume" and "Reset Disks to Non-RAID" in the IRST Option ROM menu? “Delete RAID Volume”: Remove the RAID Volume by deleting the meta data on all the disks that make up the RAID volume. Most of the times there is an option to Preserve customer data on the disks. “Reset Disks to Non-RAID”: Deleting the meta data on the disk that used to belong to a RAID Volume and make the disk available to be used in RST RAID volume again. Regards, Alberto R. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation
Hollowsword
Beginner
406 Views

Hi Alberto

 

Thanks for the response. My reply is below.

 

 

 

Question 1- In order to provide further details about your question, could you please let us know how much data is in the RAID1 configuration? 

Does RAID1 configuration contains OS drive/partition? 

What tool or method are you using to claim that RST does a Full back up instead of only the delta to the Recovery disk?

 

 

Answer 1-

 

  • Drives are RAID1 containing 2x 1TB SSD's with approx 375GB used.

 

  • Array Contains Windows 10 Pro x64 installation with 1 MBR partition (C:).

 

  • RAID1 array is initially synced, which takes approx 2 hours to complete.

 

  • I then perform an "On Demand Update" which takes just a few minutes to complete.

 

  • Each subsequent time an "On Demand Update" is made it takes only a few minutes to complete, as long as the PC has not been rebooted.

 

  • I tried this multiple times and "On Demand Update" always completes within a few minutes

 

  • Updates will always start at 0% and complete at 100% as expected.

 

  • If I shut down or reboot the PC and then do an "On Demand Update", it then takes approx 2 hours to sync.

 

  • Once synced, the "On Demand Updates" will again complete in a matter of minutes until the PC is next shut down or rebooted.

 

  • There is not a large amount of daily created or changing user data

 

  • I am not using any tools to determine this, but observing the rebuild times.

 

 

 

 

Question 2- “Delete RAID Volume”: Remove the RAID Volume by deleting the meta data on all the disks that make up the RAID volume. Most of the times there is an option to Preserve customer data on the disks.

 

“Reset Disks to Non-RAID”: Deleting the meta data on the disk that used to belong to a RAID Volume and make the disk available to be used in RST RAID volume again.

 

 

Answer 2-

 

  • Both of your explanations are the same for both of the two options, ie: Both options will delete the RAID metadata.

  • You did not explain what the difference is between these two options, unless you are saying that only the "RESET DISKS TO NON RAID" option allows the disk to be used in an RST RAID volume again?

 

  • There is no option to "preserve customer data" on the disks either through the IRST software or the Ctrl-i ROM. Have you a web link or documentation for this option?

 

  • When selecting "DELETE RAID VOLUME" on a RAID1 array, all operating system and user data will be preserved and it will leave two non-RAID hard disks which will each individually boot into Windows with all data intact. I can verify that this is the case as I have carried out this procedure.

 

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Alberto_R_Intel
Moderator
406 Views

Hi ABarr17, thank you very much once again for your feedback We will continue looking into this scenario to provide the information you are requesting. As soon as I get new details I will post them to this thread. Regards, Alberto R. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation
Alberto_R_Intel
Moderator
406 Views

ABarr17, I just wanted to let you know that we are still working on this matter, could you please provide the Intel® RST report: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000006351/technologies.html To attach the file, once you choose "reply" select the "clip" icon on the lower left corner. Regards, Alberto R. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation
Hollowsword
Beginner
406 Views

Hi Alberto

 

Attached system report.

 

Note that the SSD on Controller0 , Port0 is no longer configured as Rapid Recover. (due to the issue with syncing).

 

I deleted the Rapid Recover volume which turned the 1TB SSD drive back into a single disk, and now I am using Macrium Reflect to incrementally update an image of the SSD onto the hard disk on Controller0, Port1.

 

(Using Macrium in this way gives me similar function to Rapid Recover- I made a Macrium clone of 1TB SSD on port0 to 1TB disk on port1, and Macrium does a delta update to this cloned image daily).

 

Many Thanks.

Alberto_R_Intel
Moderator
406 Views

Hi ABarr17, thank you for providing the report and for letting us know that information. We will continue with our research on this topic, as soon as I get any updates I will post all the details on this thread. Regards, Alberto R. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation
Alberto_R_Intel
Moderator
83 Views

Hi ABarr17, I just received additional information about this subject. RAID 1 requires all drives in the mirror be online and working at all times, and appear as a single volume/device to the Operating System. If one drive goes offline, the volume is still available to the Operating System, but the RAID array is considered "degraded". With RAID 1, during normal operations both drives are accessed for both reads and writes, are kept in sync on the fly, and there is no master/slave relationship. Intel Rapid Recover Technology will use "RAID 1" technologies to mirror the master drive to the slave (aka "recovery drive"), but once it's done syncing, the "RAID 1" it was using ceases to exist. this way the slave drive can be removed from the system, and/or accessed as separate (read-only) volume. Changes made to data on the master drive while the system is not docked are automatically copied to the recovery drive when the system is re-docked. So, RAID 1 is for redundancy and performance increases, and IRRT is for system recovery (more similar to Previous Versions, and Restore Points, within Windows itself). Regards, Alberto R. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation
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