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Hyper-Retiming, How to disable it in the .qsf?

AEsqu
Novice
4,613 Views

Hyper-Retiming, How to disable it in the .qsf?

I'm asking because Quartus is not able to apply it on my design, hence I want to skip it to save run time (stratix 10, Quartus 21.1).

Messages from Quartus:

Info(16607): Fitter routing operations ending: elapsed time is 00:40:14
Info(17966): Starting Hyper-Retimer operations.
Info(18914): The Hyper-Retimer was unable to optimize the design due to retiming restrictions. Run Fast Forward Timing Closure Recommendations to see step-by-step suggestions for design changes and show the estimated performance improvement from making these changes.

Info(17968): Completed Hyper-Retimer operations.
Info(18821): Fitter Hyper-Retimer operations ending: elapsed time is 00:35:37

 

Thanks,

Alex.

 

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33 Replies
Nurina
Employee
3,621 Views

Hi Alex,


You can disable retiming using this command: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/docs/programmable/683236/22-1/allow-register-retiming.html


Regards,

Nurina


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AEsqu
Novice
3,609 Views

Thank You Nurina, I will test

set_global_assignment –name ALLOW_REGISTER_RETIMING OFF
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AEsqu
Novice
3,601 Views

Hello,

The hyper-retimer is still executed after adding 

set_global_assignment -name ALLOW_REGISTER_RETIMING OFF

in the .qsf

Note: In the fitter report/ignored assignments report it is not present, so it is taken into account.

 

Is there another command available to prevent that?

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Nurina
Employee
3,573 Views

Hi Alex,


I don't think you can entirely skip the Retime stage, the big selling point of a HyperFlex device is the ability to improve timing with the Retime stage. How much time is used for Retime stage?

You can try other steps to reduce Retime compilation time/effort.



Regards,

Nurina



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AEsqu
Novice
3,564 Views

For one project it took 8 min,

for the other project it took 38 min (still unable to optimize the design, so it is maybe a big selling point, but if not applicable to our design ...).

I will try the other options you provided.

 

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AEsqu
Novice
3,555 Views

When I use aggressive compile time, Hyper-retimer runs as long as with balanced setting.

Enable intermediate fitter snapshot was already unticked.

Would it be possible to add an option in future release of Quartus to be able to turn it off?

I use Synplify for the synthesis, I can use retiming in that tool (yes I know that Quartus has a place and route overview that can lead to a better retime too over synplify).

 

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sstrell
Honored Contributor III
3,537 Views

Retiming normally does not take very long because it is using the post-fit netlist and doesn't make changes to that netlist.  All it does is make decisions about moving registers from LABs to hyper-register locations.

Retiming in a different tool would be based on the synthesis netlist.  That's a different type of retiming from the hyper-retiming performed on the post-fit netlist by Quartus.

Are you saying that just the hyper-retiming stage itself took 38 minutes or the overall compile was that long?

If just the hyper-retimer is taking that long, then maybe there is some other related setting enabled, or maybe a fast forward compile is being run automatically or something.

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AEsqu
Novice
3,484 Views

Hello,

I think the hyper retime run time is directly proportional to the design size and/or timing requirements,

two examples below:

 

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Nurina
Employee
3,516 Views

Hi Alex,


I could certainly make a request for an option to disable it.

I need some confidential details from you, I will drop you an email.


Does above comment help to improve compile time by the way?


Regards,

Nurina


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Nurina
Employee
3,479 Views

Hi,


Yes, the retime stage compilation time would definitely take longer with a bigger project or if the tool is putting more effort in meeting timing.

Similarly all the other stages take longer time with a bigger project.


Regards,

Nurina


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SyafieqS
Moderator
3,374 Views

Hi Alex,


May I know if there is any update on this issue?


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AEsqu
Novice
3,312 Views

Hello,

I think the next update should come from Intel side,

will there be an option added to disable entirely the hyper retime step in a future version of Quartus ?

That would save quite a significant amount of run time at my side,

as indicated before.

Kind Regards,

Alex.

 

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Nurina
Employee
3,202 Views

Hello,


I can request for an option to disable it.

Apologies as it turns out I didn't send you that email previously mentioned.

Dropping you one right now so we can continue this case through email.


Regards,

Nurina


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AEsqu
Novice
3,031 Views

Hello,

The option I receive in the QSF

set_global_assignment -name ASIC_PROTOTYPING_FEATURES ON

is not helping, retiming is still running,

see attached picture.

 

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Nurina
Employee
3,004 Views

Hello Alex,


My apologies, this qsf setting is intended for Stratix 10 GX 10M, I can see that you are using Stratix 10 SX.

Let me check with internal team on the expectation of this qsf setting.


On the other hand, we strongly advise using Stratix 10 GX 10M for ASIC prototyping projects as this device is intended for ASIC prototyping and offers high capacity & large connectivity with the DIB IP and other features that makes it perfect for ASIC Prototyping.

More information regarding the Stratix 10 GX 10M here: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/210290/intel-stratix-10-gx-10m-fpga/specifications.html

DIB IP: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/docs/programmable/683142/20-2-19-3-0/about-the-dib-fpga-ip-user-guide.html


Regards,

Nurina


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AEsqu
Novice
2,984 Views

Ok let me know if you have another .qsf setting that would work for the Sx.

I will not change the FPGA, I could prototype all ASIC for the last 20 Years on the Altera/Intel FPGA:

(Cyclone 3, 5, Stratix 2, 3 ,10 and Arria 10).

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Nurina
Employee
2,914 Views

Hello,

 

Please note that internal team is currently investigating your problem. I'll let you know of any updates.

 

Regards,

Nurina

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Nurina
Employee
2,884 Views

Hello,


May I know what is the frequency the design is running at?


Regards,

Nurina




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Nurina
Employee
2,870 Views

Hi Alex,


Can you share me the design where the retime stage uses up long compilation time? I suspect that this is a bug.

You can share it through e-mail. I'm dropping you an email right now.


Regards,

Nurina



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AEsqu
Novice
2,750 Views

Hi Nurina,

I'm not allowed to share my design.

Frequencies varies, lot's of clock domains.

Main's are around 45 MHz.

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